A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 21, 2017, 09:44:21 am
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: “Economic Development” Means Gentrification for North Tulsa  (Read 3139 times)
sgrizzle
Kung Fu Treachery
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 15989


Inconceivable!


WWW
« on: April 10, 2017, 03:31:25 pm »




https://theblackwallsttimes.com/2017/04/10/economic-development-means-gentrification-for-north-tulsa/
Logged
guido911
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12028



« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 12:26:22 am »


That does it. I will no longer shop at Dollar General Stores. I had no idea it was unhealthy.
Logged

Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
erfalf
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1754



« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 06:17:12 am »

So, I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

Developers/Home Owners/Anybody with a financial interest in property does anything possible to get "interest" in their area so more and more people desire it, therefore they will pay more for it.

But not the author of this piece? She insists that the "community" (innocuous no?) must be consulted (even though those people likely considered the community have no interest outside the home the own a mile away from the proposed development.

That also means that you have to ignore the fact that these boards must post their agenda's 24 hours (I think at least that much) in advance. Often times it's more than that. What exactly more do you propose they do? Start going door to door to the "community" (they actually DO have to do that also for zoning changes, within so many feet of the property anyway).

Honestly, this sounds like it was written by some high school student with a limited exposure to reality.

And I had no idea that Dollar Generals were assisting in the decline in life expectancy of those in North Tulsa. Who knew?
Logged

"Trust but Verify." - The Gipper
Breadburner
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4320


WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 06:42:27 am »

So, I am just trying to wrap my head around this.

Developers/Home Owners/Anybody with a financial interest in property does anything possible to get "interest" in their area so more and more people desire it, therefore they will pay more for it.

But not the author of this piece? She insists that the "community" (innocuous no?) must be consulted (even though those people likely considered the community have no interest outside the home the own a mile away from the proposed development.

That also means that you have to ignore the fact that these boards must post their agenda's 24 hours (I think at least that much) in advance. Often times it's more than that. What exactly more do you propose they do? Start going door to door to the "community" (they actually DO have to do that also for zoning changes, within so many feet of the property anyway).

Honestly, this sounds like it was written by some high school student with a limited exposure to reality.

And I had no idea that Dollar Generals were assisting in the decline in life expectancy of those in North Tulsa. Who knew?


It sounded pretty stupid....
Logged

 
BKDotCom
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 08:05:32 am »

http://ktul.com/news/local/neighbors-protest-new-dollar-general

Quote
TULSA, Okla. (KTUL) — People in north Tulsa protest installing another dollar store in the community.

Neighbors say they want what they call a high-quality store, focused on health and families.

A couple dozen people showed up to tell Dollar General they are not welcome on the corner of East Pine Street and North Peoria Avenue.

The variety store plans to build a location next door to Carver Middle School.
Community members say north Tulsa is already oversaturated with dollar stores and has no need for another.

"Certainly grocery stores is something we're working on, so we can have healthy grocery options, farmer's markets," City Councilor Vanessa Hall-Harper said. "There are so many things that can promote health and will build economic development."

There is a petition to stop the Dollar General from being built, and it has more than 240 350 signatures so far.
Logged
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 28716



« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 09:37:21 pm »

I really hate to be “that guy” but as long as stores suffer with higher rates of shrinkage in North Tulsa, you simply are not going to get upscale shopping.  Who wants to make the investment when theft is a concern and the income and demographics don’t fit?  I’m just not thinking Whole Foods would do well in North Tulsa.  Perhaps the price points at Sprouts could, but again, there’s the issue of theft.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
Red Arrow
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10232


WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 09:54:33 pm »

I really hate to be “that guy” but as long as stores suffer with higher rates of shrinkage in North Tulsa, you simply are not going to get upscale shopping.  Who wants to make the investment when theft is a concern and the income and demographics don’t fit?  I’m just not thinking Whole Foods would do well in North Tulsa.  Perhaps the price points at Sprouts could, but again, there’s the issue of theft.

Perhaps if Dollar General just raised their prices a bit they could be considered upscale.  It seems to work for some restaurants. 
 
 Grin

Logged

 
brettakins
Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 41


« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 06:32:36 am »

I really hate to be “that guy” but as long as stores suffer with higher rates of shrinkage in North Tulsa, you simply are not going to get upscale shopping.  Who wants to make the investment when theft is a concern and the income and demographics don’t fit?  I’m just not thinking Whole Foods would do well in North Tulsa.  Perhaps the price points at Sprouts could, but again, there’s the issue of theft.

I do not believe these citizens are asking for upscale grocery stores. They are just asking for a full-size grocery store. Aldis would be a great alternative, in my opinion, even a warehouse market. If theft is such an issue, then why does Family Dollar and Dollar General stores keep popping on this side of town? There is a Family Dollar located within walking distance of the proposed site of the Dollar General. There's other grocery stores in north Tulsa but just not many options. The recent influx of Family Dollar/Dollar General stores popping up within walking distance of each other and not having enough full-sized grocery store options to choose from have a lot of citizens upset.
Logged
Breadburner
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4320


WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 07:48:46 am »

I really hate to be “that guy” but as long as stores suffer with higher rates of shrinkage in North Tulsa, you simply are not going to get upscale shopping.  Who wants to make the investment when theft is a concern and the income and demographics don’t fit?  I’m just not thinking Whole Foods would do well in North Tulsa.  Perhaps the price points at Sprouts could, but again, there’s the issue of theft.

Nothing wrong with telling the truth...But you can just say "Stealing".....
Logged

 
CharlieSheen
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1993



« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 08:23:00 am »

If theft is such an issue, then why does Family Dollar and Dollar General stores keep popping on this side of town?

Because Dollar General thinks they can make money.
There isn't a grocery store because they don't think they can make money.
Logged
johrasephoenix
Guest
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 08:38:21 am »

Aldi would be great.  The issue with Aldi (who owns Trader Joe's) is that a big chunk of their sales comes from house brand alcohol.  We don't allow alcohol in grocery stores, which is a huge line item for smaller footprint grocers like Aldi/Trader Joe's, so it's hard to attract more outlets, especially into neighborhoods without the retailing demographics of Brookside.

But it's doable.  Rahm Emmanual got a Whole Foods opened up in Englewood, ground zero for urban crime on the Chicago South Side. 
Logged
erfalf
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1754



« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 09:49:12 am »

Because Dollar General thinks they can make money.
There isn't a grocery store because they don't think they can make money.

Why does anyone go into business?

Dollar General is pretty much a Walgreens/CVS with no pharmacy. The vary same Walgreens/CVS types that newish urban areas desire because of the convenience.

Coincidentally, right next to the new(ish) Walmart distribution center between Tulsa & Bartlesville, they just constructed a Dollar General (or dollar something). It's convenience.
Logged

"Trust but Verify." - The Gipper
brettakins
Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 41


« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 10:54:21 am »

Because Dollar General thinks they can make money.
There isn't a grocery store because they don't think they can make money.


There is a Warehouse Market on N sheridan and a Warehouse Market on N Peoria that has been in business for many years now. Sav-a-Lot on N Lewis and a Las Americas on N Lewis. So there are grocery stores in that area that are profitable, and obviously there is a demand. There are food deserts in that part of town, I'm pretty sure that area could support another.
Logged
CharlieSheen
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1993



« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 11:45:12 am »

If somebody were to construct a new grocery store the city could give them a property tax break for a few years since they would be improving the land.  If they moved into an existing location then any tax breaks would give them an advantage over the other grocery stores in the area.  If there are two provitable grocery stores in the area and then you add a third you might make one of those other two not profitable.  I guess really it isn't just about making money but about making more money if you went somewhere else.  As soon as you run out of other places then these will move up the list (assuming the economics works out)
Logged
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 28716



« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 02:24:10 pm »

Aldi would be great.  The issue with Aldi (who owns Trader Joe's) is that a big chunk of their sales comes from house brand alcohol.  We don't allow alcohol in grocery stores, which is a huge line item for smaller footprint grocers like Aldi/Trader Joe's, so it's hard to attract more outlets, especially into neighborhoods without the retailing demographics of Brookside.

But it's doable.  Rahm Emmanual got a Whole Foods opened up in Englewood, ground zero for urban crime on the Chicago South Side. 

I don’t think that is quite accurate on the Aldi business model.  They have had stores in Oklahoma for at least 10 years if not more without alcohol sales.  Aldi’s business model is much closer to that of Save-A-Lot than it is Trader Joe’s.  TJ’s isn’t really full service, but they are more heavily staffed than any Aldi or Save-A-Lot I’ve been in.  Usually those stores will operate on 4-6 employees at any given time from what I have observed. 
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org