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May 22, 2018, 11:04:58 pm
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Author Topic: President Trump- The Implications  (Read 137785 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #2220 on: December 13, 2017, 11:13:29 am »

This election, taken by itself, I would agree, but there are other changes nationally that have to give Republicans huge pause. For example in Jenks we now have a young, female, gay Democrat as State Senator, so, we will see.



It will be interesting to see if she will get re-elected during a "full" election.  If this is the one I read about, her strategists basically contacted as many Democrats as they could in the district and it was that turn out which got her into office rather than being it being on issues or Republicans flipping as a repudiation of the systemic dysfunction down in OKC. 

My hope is more centrists will start coming into leadership roles or perhaps voters will start to realize what is wrong with politics today are the uber extremes from the right and left who seem to keep getting elected.
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Conan71
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« Reply #2221 on: December 13, 2017, 11:15:17 am »


Everybody claims a mandate - Trump did it with the slimmest of margins - the Dems are gonna do it here, also with the slimmest of margins.

I think you are right - probably 2/3 of it was Moore self-inflicted.  Bannon is very good buddies with Trump, and between the two of them, the other 1/3 of the "problem" was here.



I believe it was a sound bite from Sarah Huckabee Sanders MC and I heard on the radio last night talking about Trump's "decisive" victory when he came to power.  Talk about delusional or being forced to be delusional.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #2222 on: December 13, 2017, 12:05:22 pm »

Sadly, it appears getting removed from office a couple of time  for refusing to uphold the Constitution of the United States wasn't a factor.  I don't think many people know much about his policies either.  He was team R, that's all that really mattered to most of the ~48% that voted for him.

The numerous allegations against him certainly swayed some people, and got still others out to vote.

But he may have cost himself the election very recently with his response to the question "when were things Great in America?"  Which many people interpreted as being "when we had slaves..."  In that it seems black people turned out in much higher than expected numbers, and I see no reason why the allegations would be taken more serious by them than another demographic, referring to slavery era as an example of when America was great could explain the entire margin of loss.    (of course other groups all played their roll)

Quote
“I think it was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery — they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction.”

At the same event, Moore referred to Native Americans and Asian Americans as “reds and yellows,”
http://beta.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-roy-moore-america-was-great-when-1512758057-htmlstory.html

Lets ignore the hot button allegations:
Removed from office for refusing to uphold the constitution.
Refers to people from Asia as "Yellows."
Refers to Native  Americans as "Reds."
Believes 911 was an act of God.
Family believes having a Jewish lawyer proves you aren't an anti-Semite.
Friend tells story about him going to whorehouses, to help prove his solid character
Banned from shopping mall for being creepy.
Thinks Putin's approach to the Gays is correct.
Thinks there US communities run under Sharia Law, cannot name them.
Birther.
Thinks Muslim Members of Congress should not be allowed to take the Oath of Office.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/27/roy-moore-outrageous-things-he-said-243207

But beating him in a race for the US Senate is seen as an amazing upset.

We are all doomed.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #2223 on: December 13, 2017, 12:55:52 pm »



Family believes having a Jewish lawyer proves you aren't an anti-Semite.

We are all doomed.



They didn't say they had a Jewish lawyer, she said one of their lawyers was a Jew...  I have known that is pretty derogatory since I was about 10 years old...."those people" - the Moore family despicables never did learn it.

And yeah, we are doomed...




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erfalf
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« Reply #2224 on: December 13, 2017, 01:27:42 pm »


But beating him in a race for the US Senate is seen as an amazing upset.

We are all doomed.


I had kind of thought that too. Except the lens never swings the other way of self examination. As in, why do Dems never look at themselves and say "how in the world did we barely beat such a flawed candidate". Or in the case of Hillary, how did she loose to a candidate that had no business running. Yet as it seams, everything in life these days is always someone else's fault, never their own. The teacher hates me, the coach this or that is why I'm not playing. Just for adults.
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erfalf
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« Reply #2225 on: December 13, 2017, 01:29:51 pm »

And don't tell me it's because the Democratic message is too complicated...
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swake
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« Reply #2226 on: December 13, 2017, 02:14:10 pm »

And don't tell me it's because the Democratic message is too complicated...


That little meme isn't racist at all, not even a little bit.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #2227 on: December 13, 2017, 02:25:11 pm »

I had kind of thought that too. Except the lens never swings the other way of self examination. As in, why do Dems never look at themselves and say "how in the world did we barely beat such a flawed candidate". Or in the case of Hillary, how did she loose to a candidate that had no business running. Yet as it seams, everything in life these days is always someone else's fault, never their own. The teacher hates me, the coach this or that is why I'm not playing. Just for adults.



They know exactly why the narrowly beat him - there ARE that many sycophants, pedophiles, and Klanners in the state.

Just one of the reasons the Fed had to step in and enforce Federal Constitutional law with a voting rights act back in the 60's - 'cause they were never gonna do what was right and decent and just and legal unless forced.  As also evidenced by that fact that it took until Doug Jones to actively pursue murder convictions in the church bombing - DECADES after the fact!!  Those terrorists were Klansmen who were part of the ruling structure of Alabama (and other southern states) until tragically recent times.

These ARE the current Hijacked Republican Party you are so enamored with.  And yeah, at one time they were Hijacked Democratic Party members.  Party is especially irrelevant in these cases - evil is evil no matter what it calls itself.



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #2228 on: December 13, 2017, 02:25:57 pm »

That little meme isn't racist at all, not even a little bit.


In his mind, maybe...

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
erfalf
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« Reply #2229 on: December 13, 2017, 02:48:47 pm »

That little meme isn't racist at all, not even a little bit.

It's the first one I saw. It ain't considered racists except by people that see everything as color first, whatever second. And the fact that it was a CHILD was supposed to be the main point.
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erfalf
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« Reply #2230 on: December 13, 2017, 02:49:03 pm »



They know exactly why the narrowly beat him - there ARE that many sycophants, pedophiles, and Klanners in the state.

Just one of the reasons the Fed had to step in and enforce Federal Constitutional law with a voting rights act back in the 60's - 'cause they were never gonna do what was right and decent and just and legal unless forced.  As also evidenced by that fact that it took until Doug Jones to actively pursue murder convictions in the church bombing - DECADES after the fact!!  Those terrorists were Klansmen who were part of the ruling structure of Alabama (and other southern states) until tragically recent times.

These ARE the current Hijacked Republican Party you are so enamored with.  And yeah, at one time they were Hijacked Democratic Party members.  Party is especially irrelevant in these cases - evil is evil no matter what it calls itself.





Thanks for making my point.
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rebound
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« Reply #2231 on: December 13, 2017, 02:51:28 pm »

I had kind of thought that too. Except the lens never swings the other way of self examination. As in, why do Dems never look at themselves and say "how in the world did we barely beat such a flawed candidate". Or in the case of Hillary, how did she loose to a candidate that had no business running. Yet as it seams, everything in life these days is always someone else's fault, never their own. The teacher hates me, the coach this or that is why I'm not playing. Just for adults.

There are simply too many facets to discuss here.  But, I'll agree with you in general - but not specifically - on the self examination point.  If you think "the Dems" haven't had considerable self-reflection since the last Pres. election, you are sorely mistaken.    (Hillary herself, maybe not so much, but the party in general definitely.)   Conversely, I'd ask how Trump ever made it through the GOP primaries, as there were other (IMHO better) candidates that would have won the general much more easily.   Or, why didn't the GOP manage to run Mo Brooks or Luther Strange in AL?  Either one of those candidates would have easily beat Jones.

The reason these things happen, as noted by Heirony, is extremism.  And while extremist thought does exist on both ends of the political spectrum, I think it is fair to say that it is at its most virulent in the GOP now, and for the last several years.  And in AL, right now, we have politics at its most extreme.  And that is what allowed Brooks and Strange - both very conservative, but not extreme enough - to be beaten by Moore, and eventually costing the GOP an important Senate seat. 

The GOP is  doing their own self-examination now.  Their long-term success depends on their reaching the right conclusions.

PS - Yeah, for future reference, that meme is probably not the best one to be using to try to make a point. 

 


 
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erfalf
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« Reply #2232 on: December 13, 2017, 03:52:47 pm »

There are simply too many facets to discuss here.  But, I'll agree with you in general - but not specifically - on the self examination point.  If you think "the Dems" haven't had considerable self-reflection since the last Pres. election, you are sorely mistaken.    (Hillary herself, maybe not so much, but the party in general definitely.)   Conversely, I'd ask how Trump ever made it through the GOP primaries, as there were other (IMHO better) candidates that would have won the general much more easily.   Or, why didn't the GOP manage to run Mo Brooks or Luther Strange in AL?  Either one of those candidates would have easily beat Jones.

The reason these things happen, as noted by Heirony, is extremism.  And while extremist thought does exist on both ends of the political spectrum, I think it is fair to say that it is at its most virulent in the GOP now, and for the last several years.  And in AL, right now, we have politics at its most extreme.  And that is what allowed Brooks and Strange - both very conservative, but not extreme enough - to be beaten by Moore, and eventually costing the GOP an important Senate seat.  

The GOP is  doing their own self-examination now.  Their long-term success depends on their reaching the right conclusions.

PS - Yeah, for future reference, that meme is probably not the best one to be using to try to make a point.    

I'm not going to disagree so much as to say that I think party loyalty (insanity not withstanding) generally accounts for far more of this than you are giving it credit for. In other words I think many will vote R or D regardless of the candidate because of the perceived political values of each of the parties. I just am an optimist and refuse to paint ALL people that voted for Moore as somehow enabling, or being ok with the behavior that he was accused of. Espousing that (as heiron and swake often do) is just toxic politically and will only alienate the opposition even more, regardless of the validity of the points you may be making. And when I say behavior he was accused of I am talking about the inappropriate relationships. He was weird and problematic even without that.
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erfalf
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« Reply #2233 on: December 13, 2017, 03:59:28 pm »

PS - Yeah, for future reference, that meme is probably not the best one to be using to try to make a point.  

Don't play into that mumbo jumbo. People are people, and about the time everybody understand that skin color really is not a determining factor in ANYTHING, is about the time we will all get over this crap that is going on in society now a days. It's racist in my mind of you to assume that is racist. You are saying it is racist because in your mind it plays on the assumption that blacks are "dim witted" or whatever you want to call it. But you are the one with the racist thought in your mind. Get it. You just need to forget about all the stuff you have been brain washed with and realize that everyone just wants to be treated the same. That means, they want to be able to tell  the same jokes, and poke fun at each other with fear of some person being offended about race and color that really has nothing to do with anything anymore. Do you realize I am like 2% black. You all probably are even more. I have a ton of everything in me. We all do. We have passed beyond the point where we are all different. We are all the same.

Rant over!
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #2234 on: December 13, 2017, 04:13:34 pm »

I had kind of thought that too. Except the lens never swings the other way of self examination. As in, why do Dems never look at themselves and say "how in the world did we barely beat such a flawed candidate".

You really don't think that happens?  It certainly happened when Hillary lost - most people didn't like Trump, but too many people felt they couldn't trust and/or just didn't like Hillary.  I feel confident in my assessment... we're doomed.

In this instance, Jones was a great candidate.  Solid track record, no scandal, apparently a likable guy, record of public service, "tough on crime" prosecutor (handled famous cases well), US Attorneys office,    Civil Rights Distinguished Service Award, Alabama born and bred with a blue collar family, went to Bama for undergrad  and Samford for his JD (which is in Alabama), and a good family man (no accusation, friends don't tell stories about going to brothels, not banned from malls).  On positions he is very moderate, not in favor of raising taxes, in favor of lowering corporate taxes, wants bipartisan solutions, doesn't want to  take away guns, and has a strong anti crime anti corruption background.

Yet it takes a scandal on an international scale to eek out a W against an already deeply flawed candidate.  

There are two things people in Alabama object to Mr. Jones for, 1) he believes abortion is a constitutional right (as State by the US Supreme Court), and 2) he has a "D" next to his name. If 48% of Alabama can't get past those two issues and still feel obligated to vote for someone who did all the things I listed above,  Particularly considering one of them is pure tribalism and the other one is something he cannot change as a US Senator (and no Senator has in the last 44 years).  

So I repeat  - we're doomed.  

It would be be equally dumb for Californians to vote for a horrible candidate because he had a "D" but the great candidate has an "R" and thinks the second Amendment protects the individual right to bear arms (which is a fact presented by the US Supreme Court a few years ago).   I'd be saying the exact same thing.



(and as a side note, I don't think you were using the meme to be racist.  But it will certainly be interpreted that way by many people, and may have been intended that way by the author)
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