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November 21, 2017, 06:14:44 am
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Author Topic: SQ777  (Read 3750 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2016, 01:09:46 pm »

Where in that article do they suggest the the Oklahoma amendment goes further than ND's?



This is on the first page, rather hard to miss:

SQ777, if passed, would provide the most far reaching constitutional protections for agricultural operations of any state in the Nation;

Here’s another reference about the differences between Oklahoma, Missouri, and North Dakota’s wording:

Quote
“4. What does “compelling state interest” mean?
This is one of the most important questions involved in the debate over 777, for several reasons. First, this language was not included in either the North Dakota or Missouri amendments, so Oklahoma would be embarking on untested ground. Second, the phrase “compelling state interest” is basically a legal code word that tells courts to analyze challenges to laws at the highest level of scrutiny, and the least deference to the democratic outcome.”
From the same analysis, it claims the genesis of this measure started well outside Oklahoma and attempts to illustrate this is meant to benefit big business, not small farmers:

Quote
12. How did SQ 777 get to Oklahoma?
In 1996, the American Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC,
a group that brings together corporations and state lawmakers to write pro-business bills, came up with model legislation that would expand existing right-to-farm laws to grant wide-ranging legal rights to farms of all sizes. ALEC’s bill, intended as a template for state politicians, voided local farm ordinances and made it harder to lodge complaints about animal mistreatment, pollution, and noise. The model was later adjusted to call for amending state constitutions in lieu of state legislation.
Ahead of the 2012 elections, the North Dakota Farm Bureau asked a local lawyer to prepare the basic language contained in SQ 777, and an organization called the North Dakota Feeding Families Committee pursued a signature-petition drive to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot that said, “The right of farmers and ranchers to engage in modern farming and ranching practices shall be forever guaranteed in this state. No law shall be enacted which abridges the right of farmers and ranchers to employ agricultural technology, modern livestock production and ranching practices.” Opponents of the measure included the North Dakota Farmers Union, the state ’s largest general farm organization, whose ranks include over 40,000 member families. The amendment passed with 66.89% support.
Ahead of the 2014 elections, Missouri State Representative Bill Reiboldt, a Republican, sponsored a version of SQ 777, and it was placed on the August 5 primary ballot rather than the November 4 general election ballot by Missouri Governor Jay Nixon, a Democrat. The measure said, “That agriculture which provides food, energy, health benefits, and security is the foundation and
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stabilizing force of Missouri’s economy. To protect this vital sector of Missouri’s economy, the right of farmers and ranchers to engage in farming and ranching practices shall be forever guaranteed in this state, subject to duly authorized powers, if any, conferred by article VI of the Constitution of Missouri.” The state Farm Bureau once again supported the measure, and the state’s Farmers Union once again opposed it. The measure passed, with 50.12% support, triggering a rare statewide recount (this was only the fourth such recount in twenty years).
In April 2015, Oklahoma State Representative Scott Biggs, a Republican, sponsored a resolution to place SQ 777 on the ballot. The resolution received support from a majority of the Oklahoma House of Representatives and the Senate, and was placed on the 2016 general election ballot. An identical measure is also pending in Nebraska.


http://kirkpatrickfoundation.com/assets/docs/777_FAQs_Kirkpatrick_Foundation.pdf
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2016, 01:33:28 pm »

This is on the first page, rather hard to miss:

SQ777, if passed, would provide the most far reaching constitutional protections for agricultural operations of any state in the Nation;

Here’s another reference about the differences between Oklahoma, Missouri, and North Dakota’s wording:
From the same analysis, it claims the genesis of this measure started well outside Oklahoma and attempts to illustrate this is meant to benefit big business, not small farmers:


http://kirkpatrickfoundation.com/assets/docs/777_FAQs_Kirkpatrick_Foundation.pdf

That first page quote can mean that SQ777 is equivalent to North Dakota's.  Doesn't really tell us that, and certainly doesn't hint how, it goes further than ND's.  If they indeed meant to say that SQ777 goes further, it would have been helpful had they shown how.

The reference to the "compelling interest" language indeed mentions a difference but it does not tell us that Oklahoma's use of the "compelling interest" exception means SQ777 goes further than ND.  It only says that the language was not included in ND or Missouri.  Again, if they meant to tell us that the Oklahoma version goes further, it would have been helpful had they said so.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 01:38:47 pm by Oil Capital » Logged

 
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2016, 02:51:10 pm »

No.  It clearly does not make it impossible for Oklahoma to regulate its land.  It is still possible for Oklahoma to pass any laws and regulations it pleases, so long as the law or regulation serves a compelling state interest.  Water quality, for example, would seem to easily qualify.


Right.... I am reminded of the creation of the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority.

There will never be a "compelling state interest" that outweighs the cash put into the pockets of the legislature to maintain NO compelling state interest.  This is a huge undercover stealth stink bomb with - back to where I started - unintended consequences like the "sue Saudi Arabia" bill.



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« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2016, 07:16:08 pm »

What problem is it that this bill corrects? What kinds of problems are we having that a constitutional change would require?
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« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2016, 10:23:26 am »

What problem is it that this bill corrects? What kinds of problems are we having that a constitutional change would require?


Making Tyson responsible for their actions.

And yeah, I know it may seem like I am picking on Tyson - not really - they are a "placekeeper" label for all the big polluters in the state that are causing damage.  We got hog farms and cattle feed lots, too.  Much as the "wild west" oil industry before the, they all want to be protected from the consequences of their actions.

Haven't seen an agricultural equivalent to the OERB yet....maybe they could take the same "all talk/little action" approach and make people think something will be done to restore the Illinois river to its previous condition...among other things ag related....

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« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2016, 10:46:57 am »

The cattle feed lots upstream of OKC on the Oklahoma river, sickened the rowing crew and they didn't seem to pay any penalty. I wish someone who defends 777 would tell us just why this is so important as to need a constitutional change. Maybe, Failin' or her local surrogate, rotting Cabbage, could enlighten us? Has she shown any support?
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Conan71
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« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2016, 10:57:05 am »

The cattle feed lots upstream of OKC on the Oklahoma river, sickened the rowing crew and they didn't seem to pay any penalty. I wish someone who defends 777 would tell us just why this is so important as to need a constitutional change. Maybe, Failin' or her local surrogate, rotting Cabbage, could enlighten us? Has she shown any support?

I don’t know if it was ever proven where the e-coli came from in that case, or if that was just a guess as to where it came from.  People train in the water all the time, I believe the issue was a team from outside the US jumped in to celebrate a win and some members ended up with the runs for a few days.

The feed lots in the Panhandle apparently forgot about the dust bowl a long time ago.  I drove through a white out dust storm coming off a feed lot out near Boise City on Monday coming back from NM.
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« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2016, 07:29:55 pm »

The cattle feed lots upstream of OKC on the Oklahoma river, sickened the rowing crew and they didn't seem to pay any penalty. I wish someone who defends 777 would tell us just why this is so important as to need a constitutional change. Maybe, Failin' or her local surrogate, rotting Cabbage, could enlighten us?

A big chunk of it was aimed at PETA and animal activists, essentially stripping the ability of citizens to complain about animal cruelty or unsanitary conditions.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2016, 07:53:56 am »

I don’t know if it was ever proven where the e-coli came from in that case, or if that was just a guess as to where it came from.  People train in the water all the time, I believe the issue was a team from outside the US jumped in to celebrate a win and some members ended up with the runs for a few days.

The feed lots in the Panhandle apparently forgot about the dust bowl a long time ago.  I drove through a white out dust storm coming off a feed lot out near Boise City on Monday coming back from NM.


If it wasn't a cattle feed lot, then it had to be a human sewer treatment facility discharging raw sewage.  Those are the only two sources on a scale to cause that degree of contamination. 



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AquaMan
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« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2016, 08:27:05 am »

There are lots of sewer, and petrochemical lines that cross that river as well as the Arkansas. But I have spent a lot of time in our river and never had any problems, nor heard any from our local rowing teams. We flow a lot more water through ours however and that tends to dilute and wash it on a regular basis.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2016, 08:53:26 am »

There are lots of sewer, and petrochemical lines that cross that river as well as the Arkansas. But I have spent a lot of time in our river and never had any problems, nor heard any from our local rowing teams. We flow a lot more water through ours however and that tends to dilute and wash it on a regular basis.



In the old raft race days, that's one of the reasons they 'flushed' the sewer (river) a couple days ahead of the race - to try to dilute Sand Springs' raw discharges...

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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AquaMan
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« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2016, 10:36:25 am »

They are no longer raw. SS upgraded their system more than a decade ago. If we could just keep water in that river in some way other than expensive dams we would rule. It can be done imo but not in a way that rewards local companies. Doesn't matter, we'd still find a way to screw it up. With that climate change thing our state doesn't believe in, I think we can expect higher than average flows along this river for the future.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2016, 10:53:54 am »

They are no longer raw. SS upgraded their system more than a decade ago. If we could just keep water in that river in some way other than expensive dams we would rule. It can be done imo but not in a way that rewards local companies. Doesn't matter, we'd still find a way to screw it up. With that climate change thing our state doesn't believe in, I think we can expect higher than average flows along this river for the future.


Yeah...I have heard bits and pieces about it.  No longer work in related industry, but try to keep up some. 

Now, if Tulsa could figure out a way to fix all the old sewer connections in old parts of town from storm drains to sewer drains....
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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2016, 11:59:03 am »

The runoff from yard and golf course fertilizers, dog poop, goose droppings, oil on streets, and unscrupulous commercial entities dumping into sewer drains is the biggest problem imo. After a heavy rain, you should wait a day or two for that stuff to be swept down to Jenks before water activities ensue. Not that Jenks wants it, it just slows down over there and settles.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2016, 12:19:01 pm »

We flow a lot more water through ours however and that tends to dilute and wash it on a regular basis.


The solution to pollution is dilution.
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