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November 21, 2017, 06:13:24 am
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Author Topic: Jackson Technical HQ  (Read 7608 times)
Bamboo World
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« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2016, 03:54:52 pm »



Also not to keep piling on the hate BUT the architect for this project is the architect for Pizza Hut Wing Street, Wendy's, and FedEx Kinkos.  That should say something.
 

I'm coming to the defense of Ted Reeds and The McIntosh Group.  Ted is a very good architect, and he cares about urban design principles.  Ted has worked hard to preserve some of Tulsa's historic architecture, such as the façade of the City Market building a few blocks south on Elgin at 10th Street.  Most of that beautiful terra cotta probably would be broken and/or buried in a landfill, if not for Ted's efforts to save the Art Deco façade and to work it into Home Depot's development plan.

The McIntosh Group (TMG) has many clients, including those you mentioned, but that doesn't mean that TMG designs every building for all of those various companies.  For example, when QT was slammed with an enormous civil rights consent decree a few years ago, TMG helped QT update stores and sites to be more accessible and to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act Design Guidelines.  TMG worked with QT to remove barriers (resulting from the designs of other architects).

The placement of the Jackson Technical HQ building on its site was the client's choice, as explained by TimJ808 on this forum.  Simply because TMG has Wendy's and Pizza Hut as clients doesn't make TMG or any of their other clients/projects hate-worthy. 
     
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2016, 05:09:46 pm »



I originally thought there was not good access to the back of that lot, but it does appear there is an alleyway extending north off 7th.  Now if they were concerned about the speed of people firing off the IDL onto 7th and that’s why they put the parking on Elgin, that might be one thing.  There is a restricted right turn onto Frankfurt on 7th as well at least during peak business hours (i.e. forbidden).


TimJ808 explained the reasons why "they" arranged the parking with some spaces in the front of the building -- that's the way he (the property owner and paying client) wanted his company's parking lot to be laid out for the convenience of his clients and his employees.

According to TimJ808, there are to be some parking spaces behind the building, with access from the alley.  I haven't seen the Jackson Technical site plan, but I've designed parking lots.  Having a row of parking spaces along an alley is very, very efficient use of space, in terms of getting the most parking on the least amount of land.  I think the designers have crammed as many spaces as possible behind the building, along the alley.

By shifting the building about 9 feet closer to Elgin (or the approximate width of a parking space), it would be very easy to fit an extra space on the alley side.  But in doing so, 3 spaces would be lost on the front side of the building. 

In other words, shift the building 9 feet closer to Elgin and lose 3 parking spaces in the front of the building (and with a net loss of 2 spaces on the site).

Shift the building 18 feet closer to Elgin and gain 2 spaces behind, but lose 6 spaces in front (for a net loss of 4 spaces on the site).

TimJ808's goal was to maximize on-site parking.  Also, he stated that he prefers the setback from Elgin.  It makes him feel comfortable, with the buildings giving him a hug.
   
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2016, 08:23:19 am »

Just because HE wanted HIS building to be built THIS way doesn't make THIS placement any BETTER. Sure, he gets a hug from his neighbors...enjoying the fact that they are fronted to the street. Almost like the aesthetic feel of having buildings in an urban area fronted to the street is preferable?

Few are arguing he shouldn't be able to do it, the code is clear that he can. Most are arguing that the building would better fit in the neighborhood, better contribute to walk ability, and help tie the streetscape together better if it was fronted like nearly every other urban area in the world. Look no further than Cherry Street or Brookside, when you start putting in setbacks you stop walking. Look no further than Vault, when a building is setback it isn't as visible as part of the streetscape.

This one building isn't the end of the world. Its a neat design and I'm glad they are staying downtown filing in an empty lot (and one knockdown). But that doesn't mean we have to cheer it without a critique. On the whole, a positive in my book. But also a missed opportunity. It's getting a "B" when damn it, you should of had that "A".
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2016, 04:54:55 pm »


I'm not cheering it.  On the whole, it's a negative in my book.  In terms of urban design and walkability, it gets an "F" from me.

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PonderInc
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« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2016, 05:15:38 pm »

Look no further than Cherry Street or Brookside, when you start putting in setbacks you stop walking. Look no further than Vault, when a building is setback it isn't as visible as part of the streetscape.

So true.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2016, 12:59:38 am »

Didn't The Vault use an existing building that was a bank drive through that had a conference/meeting room on the upper deck called the Oyahoma Room? I agree that the setback is not ideal, but they were able to re-purpose a building that has some significance to downtown, and is a mid-century modern design, or a Googie Architecture design.

So the setback there was a result of using an existing structure, and as much as Artist loves Deco, I'm of fan of that building's design era. Your mileage may vary, just my opinion.  Wink 
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davideinstein
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« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2016, 08:12:00 am »

The bigger question:  Why is it even allowed?

Bad policy at city hall. Can't blame the developer, they adjust accordingly.
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hello
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« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2017, 09:42:08 am »

I just want to say how awful the new construction looks. Completely ruins the look of that block by not being set to the street.
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« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2017, 01:29:12 pm »

I just want to say how awful the new construction looks. Completely ruins the look of that block by not being set to the street.

I like the building design but agree this absolutely should've been right up to the Elgin sidewalk. 

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« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2017, 11:29:43 am »

I just want to say how awful the new construction looks. Completely ruins the look of that block by not being set to the street.

Eh...it's downtown Tulsa.  To me, anything with life is better than these F'ing parking lots.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2017, 02:04:04 pm »

Eh...it's downtown Tulsa.  To me, anything with life is better than these F'ing parking lots.

Sad but true when you consider that over half of downtown remains parking or empty lots. However, this particular location acts as a chokehold for southeastern development in the Blue Dome/East Village area. The highway exit ramp would've otherwise been the stopper so about like losing a block of potential urban/walkable area.

Still, it would be nice to see a bit faster progress on all of those almost ~$1 billion in potential downtown projects, especially in NE downtown. The View looks held up, only the hotel is being built in the Santa Fe square and who knows what or when anything will come of the Nordam redevelopment.

A lot of developers seemed to pull back or slow down with the oil crash. Oil is less than 10% of the economy so while that is still a big deal, it seems like investors should keep going due to the rest of the economy doing so well. I have started to see listings "for rent" in the heart of downtown which used to rarely ever happen (they all had long wait lists).

Maybe they are scared of a few vacancies or having to lower prices a bit and don't want to make it harder for themselves. I understand that but also think the overall rise in rents and demand to live in urban areas will rise faster, especially if the new developments get built. This is part of the reason we need affordable condos downtown: to ease the  financial burden on the developers: rather than a massive mortgage or upfront payment, they sell the condos and get paid back much earlier. The Nordam spot would be a perfect place to put some good efficient condos in! Many would pay $100k-$250k for a nice spot they could own downtown. Many do that in places like Little Rock, Des Moines and other mid-sized cities already.
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