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June 24, 2019, 10:54:21 am
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Author Topic: 11TH ST DEVELOPMENT  (Read 24013 times)
TheArtist
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« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2019, 09:09:51 am »

My first thought was "How is this 5 million dollars?" Seems awfully high unless the land was pretty expensive and or it includes the restaurant build out etc.  Usually a strip mall type development is one of the cheapest means of building. I would have thought 2.5 mill would be expensive, but 5, egads.
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« Reply #121 on: February 28, 2019, 10:15:04 am »

The Welding School still owns that lot at NW corner of 11th and Lewis. Not sure what they have planned for that. I hope it's more than just leaving it empty indefinitely. The previous building there appeared decent for a welding school, better than empty lots at least.

All the lots around the Mother Road Market are owned by "1124 SOUTH LEWIS AVE LLC" and the empty lots on the east side are owned by "FERNWEH SHOPS LLC". A search of that brings up this listing for commercial retail space available: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/







Street-fronted development with limited rear parking. Seems like it'll add life to that stretch. Not the greatest looking or most unique development but looks like it matches the brewery and Mother Road Market pretty well and a huge improvement over what was there (some unsightly old industrial buildings). It will accommodate up to 9 tenants.

^ These images show the layout. Looks like it is for sure just a 1-story development. Not mixed use in spirit and maybe not even techinically (Maybe the zoning will be MX so they felt free to use that phrase incorrectly). They should've really tried to add at least 2nd floor apartments/office space. This is great to have these empty lots redeveloped, and it'll change the area drastically, but it seems short-sighted to make it single story retail development. It does look way better than most strip malls.
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« Reply #122 on: February 28, 2019, 10:17:20 am »

I'm wondering if they're foreseeing a path of tenants from Mother Road Market to across the street if they get to that level. I'd guess the rent needs to be pretty affordable for that spot (Listing says ~$18/ft2/year which sounds pretty good), or at least for a while. It's just out of convenience range for a lot of TU students since they've become a residential campus, but very convenient for midtowners in a spot that's sort of out of sight for most right now, especially considering there's no exit to it or visibility from the BA. Maybe the Mother Road Market will "activate" that area. Years ago it was rumored these lots were owned by LTFF and were slated to become the Mother Road Market and a mixed use development. Apparently they have reduced it to just retail/commercial which is a shame because residential would add a nice component to the area and help diversify to keep it feasible. A multi-story building would be a lot better use of the space.

Overall this is good news for Renaissance residents. Awesome to see the stretches around Renaissance go from pretty bleak and unused to what is planned now. 


To answer my own question from last year, since this project is now confirmed to not be part of LTFF, My guess is that the "Mixed Use" development they had in the works will be on the empty lot on the NW corner of 11th and Lewis. That would be an ideal spot for a large 4-5 story mixed use building. I think that might be the grand goal of all of this for all the players working on this, from the Fuel 66 Food Truck park, to the Mother Road Market and now this... It's setting the stage for a big increase in demand for urban style residential in the area rather than just duplexes and houses.
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DTowner
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« Reply #123 on: February 28, 2019, 03:02:58 pm »

I like the design and the use of brick.  It looks like it will be a mirror image of the Mother Road Market across the street.

“Mixed use” seems like the new “sustainable” - a phrase that has come to mean nothing but gives people the warm fuzzies.  I’m not sure 2nd floor apartments that close to Lewis would be desirable.  Even with it down to 2 lanes, that stretch of Lewis carries a lot of traffic.  Moreover, if a second floor was added for residential or commercial, wouldn’t that require more parking than can fit on this lot? 
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #124 on: February 28, 2019, 03:46:26 pm »

My first thought was "How is this 5 million dollars?" Seems awfully high unless the land was pretty expensive and or it includes the restaurant build out etc.  Usually a strip mall type development is one of the cheapest means of building. I would have thought 2.5 mill would be expensive, but 5, egads.

You're right that it should cost closer to $2.5 million. I'm guessing the article is wrong or that there's a 2nd floor not described in the plans.

For $5 mil, there is no way they could even afford to pay the mortgage at the rents they are charging ($18/sf/yr) unless it was heavily and I mean heavily subsidized by someone like LKFF (which it stated publicly that this isn't connected to them). They'd need around $33 just to break even.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/

I'm guessing the original plan was for 2 stories and they went with a more realistic single story (which could be due to parking as others mentioned) but the developer that gave the scoop to the World accidentally gave the original proposed budget.


Hats off to them though: They just officially announced and are already not only moving dirt, but pouring foundations. This is still far better than a typical retail strip and goes into an area that needs all the momentum it can get. Fingers crossed that the building will be built with the ability to add a 2nd floor in case they can add more office or kitchen space, or even a rooftop patio add on.
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« Reply #125 on: February 28, 2019, 08:08:47 pm »

Looking forward to seeing the eventual plans for the SW and NW corners of 11th & Lewis.  That is owned by LTFF and from what I’ve heard they want the development there to be truly “mixed-use”.  Eventually the Advance Auto Parts at the SE corner could be redeveloped and then you really would have a mini-District in itself along 11th.  Lots of opportunity to continue this further east toward TU and create a “Campus Corner” type setting.
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« Reply #126 on: March 01, 2019, 08:33:24 am »

Looking forward to seeing the eventual plans for the SW and NW corners of 11th & Lewis.  That is owned by LTFF and from what I’ve heard they want the development there to be truly “mixed-use”.  Eventually the Advance Auto Parts at the SE corner could be redeveloped and then you really would have a mini-District in itself along 11th.  Lots of opportunity to continue this further east toward TU and create a “Campus Corner” type setting.

That would be really cool for TU students and the surrounding neighborhoods. It has been a long time coming and still ways to go, but nice to see the gears moving to transform Lewis and 11th around here. The ultimate goal of those communities, the Pearl/Whittier-Districts, city leaders like Kathy Taylor has been to promote growth and safe neighborhoods in that area to link TU to downtown.

Imagine that stretch with lots of mixed use housing (Like at 6th and Lewis, where TU is starting on the next big phase) and all renovated homes along those stretches. That'll help make Tulsa a very competitive and much more urbanized place to live. No need to kick anyone out. Just fix places up and get them looking nice and residents often follow suit, especially with some help as they've done NE of 11th and Lewis, repainting most of those houses.
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« Reply #127 on: June 14, 2019, 11:39:18 am »

Development planned for the SW corner of 11th & Lewis adjacent to Mother Road Market.  This has been rumored for awhile.  


I've heard they (Lobeck-Taylor) also want to redevelop the site to the north (NW corner of 11th & Lewis) into more a mixed-use development with residential. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 11:41:13 am by SXSW » Logged

 
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« Reply #128 on: June 14, 2019, 01:23:49 pm »

Is the Union Pacific/BNSF line in that area still used? If not it would be so cool to see that corridor converted to commuter rail. The NW corner of 11th and Lewis would make a great location for a station.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 01:28:02 pm by ELG4America » Logged
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« Reply #129 on: June 14, 2019, 02:25:27 pm »

Is the Union Pacific/BNSF line in that area still used? If not it would be so cool to see that corridor converted to commuter rail. The NW corner of 11th and Lewis would make a great location for a station.

Are you talking about the rail line crossing Lewis and 11th? It is still used. It is pretty bad spot to cross such a busy couple of roads as it causes delays around rush hour pretty regularly.

That would be cool to have commuter rail or some sort of reliable transportation. The BART line will at least stop at this intersection and be an easy ride to downtown. This area will be some of the best for living without a car.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #130 on: June 14, 2019, 02:25:51 pm »

Development planned for the SW corner of 11th & Lewis adjacent to Mother Road Market.  This has been rumored for awhile.  


I've heard they (Lobeck-Taylor) also want to redevelop the site to the north (NW corner of 11th & Lewis) into more a mixed-use development with residential. 


Here's a linke to article in TW:
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-to-build-retail-complex-to-complement/article_207cbae6-94a7-5372-a27f-1e9afd1ef2af.html
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« Reply #131 on: June 15, 2019, 09:06:26 am »

Is the Union Pacific/BNSF line in that area still used? If not it would be so cool to see that corridor converted to commuter rail. The NW corner of 11th and Lewis would make a great location for a station.

Any future commuter rail on that corridor would likely have a stop here.  We’re basically building a transit-oriented development without the transit.   Smiley

It will have the 11th BRT though. 
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« Reply #132 on: June 15, 2019, 10:44:36 am »

Any future commuter rail on that corridor would likely have a stop here.  We’re basically building a transit-oriented development without the transit.   Smiley

It will have the 11th BRT though. 

Does anyone know if the railroad right of way is wide enough to double track? 

I know that would be expensive but it could be an option.
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« Reply #133 on: June 16, 2019, 02:26:32 pm »

Does anyone know if the railroad right of way is wide enough to double track? 

I know that would be expensive but it could be an option.

It doesn't look like it.  I think you would have to either share the ROW with the freight line or rebuild the highway.  When Denver built it's SE light rail extension in the mid-2000's they built a rail ROW as part of the highway expansion.  It runs on the side of the highway and goes below-grade where the highway goes below-grade, which allows stations to be placed next to parking garages.  If you had the light rail down the center how would you access the stations?
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« Reply #134 on: June 16, 2019, 05:20:27 pm »

It doesn't look like it.  I think you would have to either share the ROW with the freight line or rebuild the highway.  When Denver built it's SE light rail extension in the mid-2000's they built a rail ROW as part of the highway expansion.  It runs on the side of the highway and goes below-grade where the highway goes below-grade, which allows stations to be placed next to parking garages.  If you had the light rail down the center how would you access the stations?

When I compared it to the double track trolley from where I grew up, the freight line here looks as wide or wider in most spots than the trolley line.  I was thinking of move the freight line to one side and put light rail on the other, not light rail down the center.  The trolley line was built in the early 1900s.  Right of way regulations are probably tougher now.

https://goo.gl/maps/GDPMfrU9M72eNTNz5

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