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November 23, 2017, 05:14:48 am
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Author Topic: Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details  (Read 42177 times)
patric
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« Reply #375 on: April 08, 2016, 09:32:26 am »

What are you trying to say here? The city needs more police as evidenced by the study the increase was based on. Hiring more officers and firefighters will benefit the entire city and hopefully reduce crime rates and improve health and safety (firefighters are often first responders).

There are as many studies that debunk that as support it.
Hiring more police doesnt always mean more police on the streets, as there's a long list of patrolmen waiting to move up to their promised specialty positions.

Didnt we use to preach "better utilization" ?  Granted, wear and tear on firefighter equipment is something we have fallen behind on, but that doesnt necessarily translate dollar-for-dollar for other departments.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
PonderInc
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« Reply #376 on: April 08, 2016, 03:45:55 pm »

Hey, now that we've funded a $50 million slush fund for the Fire Dept so they can bring 4 guys and a ladder truck to every EMS call (which makes up something like 95% of fire dept responses).... maybe they can use that money instead to invest in smaller fire trucks or even red ambulances.  Then we could stop designing our city around the wide streets, huge access lanes, extra driveway aisles, and ridiculous turn radii that the fire department claims it needs for their big ol' trucks.
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davideinstein
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« Reply #377 on: April 08, 2016, 03:46:46 pm »

Hey, now that we've funded a $50 million slush fund for the Fire Dept so they can bring 4 guys and a ladder truck to every EMS call (which makes up something like 95% of fire dept responses).... maybe they can use that money instead to invest in smaller fire trucks or even red ambulances.  Then we could stop designing our city around the wide streets, huge access lanes, extra driveway aisles, and ridiculous turn radii that the fire department claims it needs for their big ol' trucks.

Preach!
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davideinstein
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« Reply #378 on: April 08, 2016, 03:52:21 pm »

What are you trying to say here? The city needs more police as evidenced by the study the increase was based on. Hiring more officers and firefighters will benefit the entire city and hopefully reduce crime rates and improve health and safety (firefighters are often first responders).

This proposition passed by such a high margin, I doubt there were many districts against it. The map didn't show that though. It showed who voted for Prop 3. Are you making a facetious comment about the classic argument about these kinds of tax increases, "the rich voted for improvements the poor will never use"?

I'm saying the vast majority of votes came from the white, wealthy area to fund police that will go to the poor, undereducated areas. And to be clear, I'm specifically targeting prop 1. I voted yes on 2 and 3 in the same area that I am critical of.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 04:00:57 pm by davideinstein » Logged
Weatherdemon
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« Reply #379 on: April 11, 2016, 10:01:41 am »

Hey, now that we've funded a $50 million slush fund for the Fire Dept so they can bring 4 guys and a ladder truck to every EMS call (which makes up something like 95% of fire dept responses).... maybe they can use that money instead to invest in smaller fire trucks or even red ambulances.  Then we could stop designing our city around the wide streets, huge access lanes, extra driveway aisles, and ridiculous turn radii that the fire department claims it needs for their big ol' trucks.

I think they respond to EMS calls to save money/increase response time because the EMSA contract sucks.
I don't know for sure though. I don't think the cost is that much more to bring a ladder truck vs. an ambulance and the 4 guys are getting paid the same if they are out on a call or sitting on their cot at the station.
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carltonplace
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« Reply #380 on: April 12, 2016, 07:30:35 am »

I think they respond to EMS calls to save money/increase response time because the EMSA contract sucks.
I don't know for sure though. I don't think the cost is that much more to bring a ladder truck vs. an ambulance and the 4 guys are getting paid the same if they are out on a call or sitting on their cot at the station.

Either way it's wasteful. EM and Fire should be combined, though we all know the reasons this won't happen.
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Weatherdemon
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« Reply #381 on: April 12, 2016, 09:56:29 am »

Either way it's wasteful. EM and Fire should be combined, though we all know the reasons this won't happen.

I agree 100%
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swake
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« Reply #382 on: April 12, 2016, 10:19:00 am »

The various sheriff's offices/police and fire departments should dissolve and form metro wide protection districts with the various cities/counties forming a commission to hire professionals to run the departments.

Under current state law fire protection districts are allowed to be funded by property taxes instead of volatile sales taxes. That law could/should be expanded to allow police districts as well.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #383 on: April 13, 2016, 09:52:42 am »

The various sheriff's offices/police and fire departments should dissolve and form metro wide protection districts with the various cities/counties forming a commission to hire professionals to run the departments.

Under current state law fire protection districts are allowed to be funded by property taxes instead of volatile sales taxes. That law could/should be expanded to allow police districts as well.

This seems like a d#mn good idea. Why hasn't anyone (knowledgeable) responded? It uses a back door so to speak to secure a more stable funding source and would make them more professionally operated. Very smart. Or maybe that's what's wrong with it....
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onward...through the fog
Conan71
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« Reply #384 on: April 13, 2016, 02:39:11 pm »

This seems like a d#mn good idea. Why hasn't anyone (knowledgeable) responded? It uses a back door so to speak to secure a more stable funding source and would make them more professionally operated. Very smart. Or maybe that's what's wrong with it....

The same reason school consolidation will never happen.  No one will give up their own little fiefdom.  Our state may resemble Mexico just south of the California border in 25 years but we will still enjoy our 500 some school districts over 77 counties, multiple over-lapping police forces, paramedic duties which could be done by FD’s etc. etc.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #385 on: April 13, 2016, 03:07:01 pm »

The same reason school consolidation will never happen.  No one will give up their own little fiefdom.  Our state may resemble Mexico just south of the California border in 25 years but we will still enjoy our 500 some school districts over 77 counties, multiple over-lapping police forces, paramedic duties which could be done by FD’s etc. etc.

Dont forget the

TPD
Jenks PD
Broken Arrow PD
Skiatook
Sand Springs
Glenpool
Bixby
Owasso
TPS PD
TCC PD
Tulsa, Creek, Osage and Wagner Sheriffs
Highway Patrol
Secret Service
US Marshall's
TSA

and God knows I'm missing a few. For each new office, you get a new set of administrators, payroll clerks, etc. etc. etc.

Yay!
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #386 on: May 13, 2016, 01:37:56 pm »

What many opponents (and even some proponents) of this tax feared is already happening:


Quote
City officials defend cuts to 911
Councilor criticizes a proposal to eliminate 15 vacant 911 positions.

A city financial official for the second straight week on Thursday defended the elimination of 15 vacant 911 positions in next year’s budget.
Finance Director Mike Kier said the funding for public safety reflects cuts that all departments are experiencing for fiscal 2017 to fill a widening budget hole. Officials estimate the city will fall about $8.5 million or more behind budget estimates by June 30, the end of this fiscal year.
The issue has been in front of the City Council for two weeks in a row as Councilor Karen Gilbert has questioned the motives of cutting the 911 positions from the budget after voters approved Vision Tulsa’s public safety tax, which will add personnel.
We have 15 positions that are being eliminated, but within the new public-safety tax … we’re going to be funding 16 additional dispatchers,” Gilbert said. “So the way that we presented this to the public when we were going out and doing town hall meetings on Vision. … We presented it to the public that those departments included in Vision, the funding would stay to where it had been previously.”
Vision Tulsa’s public safety tax is a permanent, dedicated tax that took up almost a third of Vision 2025’s expiring 0.6 percent sales tax. Voters approved the tax April 5.
It goes into effect Jan. 1, and the funds begin to go into city coffers in mid-February.
The permanent tax eventually will put about $18 million per year toward public safety, which will go toward hiring about 160 new police officers, 70 new firefighters and the additional 911 personnel.
Gilbert said her concern is that it appears the funding from the tax is being directed elsewhere.
“Our intent was to add additional forces, not to replace current operations,” Gilbert said.
Kier said cutting the positions following the passage of Vision’s dedicated tax is not supplanting because public safety’s percentage of the general budget is staying the same.
“As long as we continue to provide … the same percentage of revenue that they would have been receiving prior to this, then we really aren’t taking those new funds and using them to fund something else,” Kier said.
Eliminating vacant positions was preferred to avoid the likelihood of eliminating filled positions, he said.
In total, the proposed budget eliminates 56 vacant positions from all over City Hall that haven’t been filled during a long-held hiring freeze.
The proposal also would eliminate three positions that are currently held, but officials have said they hope to move those employees to other positions to avoid them becoming layoffs.
Councilors have until the end of June to make changes to the budget proposal before finalizing it.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/city-officials-defend-cuts-to/article_c856782f-5f58-5fca-be53-c3e88ada47f4.html

This is not surprising and will probably be followed by about 150 police positions cut and 60 firefighters. Great job, Dewey! You really had the public going there! Bravo!
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Conan71
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« Reply #387 on: May 13, 2016, 02:03:23 pm »

Tulsa’s finance department:

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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
Laramie
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« Reply #388 on: May 16, 2016, 07:34:18 am »

What on earth happened here:

Quote
A 0.05 percent Tulsa County sales tax approved by almost two-thirds of voters on April 5 may be in doubt because of an irregularity in the publishing of legal notices prior to the election.

At issue is the failure of some paid legal notices from Tulsa County to appear in the Tulsa World. The missed election notices could invalidate the vote on the county’s portion of the Vision sales tax extension.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/legal-issue-leaves-county-vision-vote-in-question/article_e7f0dfbc-d094-5254-9338-36b0c7429c58.html

Sixty-four percent (64%) voter approval in the April 5 election; heads need to roll.   Progress in Tulsa has momentum, this is not a time to put doubt in the minds of the voting public.

Quote
None of the other local municipal tax measures that were part of the April 5 Vision vote are affected. The unaffected measures include three city of Tulsa propositions that are expected to raise about $800 million for public safety, economic development and public transit. Those taxes take effect Jan. 1.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 07:38:14 am by Laramie » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #389 on: May 16, 2016, 07:46:12 am »

What on earth happened here:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/legal-issue-leaves-county-vision-vote-in-question/article_e7f0dfbc-d094-5254-9338-36b0c7429c58.html

Sixty-four percent (64%) voter approval in the April 5 election; heads need to roll.   Progress in Tulsa has momentum, this is not a time to put doubt in the minds of the voting public.
 


No doubts in the mind of the voting public at all....the people running the show are incompetent.  Only been doing elections for how many decades...??

And can't get it right...

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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