Downtown Development Overview

[johrasephoenix]

That dairy lot is listed on Loopnet for about $3,000,000.  That's around $70/sf and a pretty steep price for Tulsa on a 1 acre lot (especially because it is adjacent to a big empty lot to the north and an active industrial site across the street).

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Thank you for the thorough response!

That looks like a good addition. Glad to see several big buildings going in around there.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I'm not sure what the story is with the grassy area just South of Inner Circle and North of that truck lot is either, but someone needs to get on top of mowing it.

I was over there when an outdoor concert was going on and I can't imagine well-off baby boomers being to happy living next to that in the Davenport lofts!

That big empty lot has lots of potential! It could be anything! It would be neat to see that and the industrial buildings right next to Inner Circle developed into something. It would be neat if an old warehouse downtown could be converted into something like the Grand Central Market in LA: http://www.grandcentralmarket.com/

It looks like a relatively low startup for the warehouse part of it and then the restaurants have an indoor year-round place for a lot less than a building and a lot more stable/dependable environment than a food truck.
https://www.google.com/search?q=grand+central+market+la&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAmfrpt6rMAhUBLyYKHYwMB8cQ_AUICSgD&biw=1117&bih=741&dpr=0.67

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Or something like Eastern Market in DC
http://www.easternmarket-dc.org/

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=eastern+market+dc&oq=eastern+market+dc&gs_l=img.3..0l4j0i8i30l3j0i24l3.308.2472.0.2848.17.14.0.3.3.0.141.925.11j2.13.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..2.15.818.u-7BJ8dNybU


Or Reading Terminal Market in Philly
http://www.readingterminalmarket.org/

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=reading+terminal+market&oq=reading+termina&gs_l=img.3.0.0l10.609.2637.0.3350.15.12.0.3.3.0.163.917.9j3.12.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.14.817.buhKnzM6Rwk

Or Eataly in NYC
https://www.eataly.com/

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=eataly&oq=eataly&gs_l=img.3..0l10.542.1641.0.1961.6.5.0.1.1.0.50.190.5.5.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.6.193.iDkLQXqeidQ

[Conan71]

A guy, no idea on his name, at the table next to us said he had heard overtures have been made about purchasing the lot but that the dairy were asking for a totally unrealistic price for it.

Peter Mayo has told me the same thing.  Sooner or later someone will want the dirt bad enough they will pay the price.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Or something like Eastern Market in DC
http://www.easternmarket-dc.org/

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=eastern+market+dc&oq=eastern+market+dc&gs_l=img.3..0l4j0i8i30l3j0i24l3.308.2472.0.2848.17.14.0.3.3.0.141.925.11j2.13.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..2.15.818.u-7BJ8dNybU


Or Reading Terminal Market in Philly
http://www.readingterminalmarket.org/

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=reading+terminal+market&oq=reading+termina&gs_l=img.3.0.0l10.609.2637.0.3350.15.12.0.3.3.0.163.917.9j3.12.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.14.817.buhKnzM6Rwk

Or Eataly in NYC
https://www.eataly.com/

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=eataly&oq=eataly&gs_l=img.3..0l10.542.1641.0.1961.6.5.0.1.1.0.50.190.5.5.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.6.193.iDkLQXqeidQ

Yes! Those all look great and very similar to the LA one. Those are a good use of old industrial buildings in urban areas.

The Chelsea Market in NYC is another: https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=reading+terminal+market&oq=reading+termina&gs_l=img.3.0.0l10.609.2637.0.3350.15.12.0.3.3.0.163.917.9j3.12.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.14.817.buhKnzM6Rwk&safe=active#safe=active&tbm=isch&q=chelsea+market+nyc
The Chelsea Market also had an area similar to the popup shops at 6th and Boston with the MADE store in Tulsa but was more open air (no walls). It was sort of a perpetual version of the Tulsa Flea Market (but better quality) where vendors had tables and really basic setups for selling art and homemade stuff.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

A guy, no idea on his name, at the table next to us said he had heard overtures have been made about purchasing the lot but that the dairy were asking for a totally unrealistic price for it.

Peter Mayo has told me the same thing.  Sooner or later someone will want the dirt bad enough they will pay the price.

I know it is their right and is perhaps a smart thing to do for them, but it sucks when landowners hinder progress by sitting on a property and doing nothing with it waiting for a big payday (which will ultimately be thanks to all of the hard work many others have put into the Brady District). They could at least do a call for proposals and see if any developers might create an idea which would boost the land value and the area.

[Conan71]

Peter Mayo has told me the same thing.  Sooner or later someone will want the dirt bad enough they will pay the price.


I know it is their right and is perhaps a smart thing to do for them, but it sucks when landowners hinder progress by sitting on a property and doing nothing with it waiting for a big payday (which will ultimately be thanks to all of the hard work many others have put into the Brady District). They could at least do a call for proposals and see if any developers might create an idea which would boost the land value and the area.

The elderly man who owns the old Ford building on North Main that GKFF has put all the money into renovating refused to sell that building countless times.  My understanding is, he still did not sell it but GKFF entered into a very long term lease.

That's always a solution.  Are they not still using this lot to store trailers and such?  Seems like that would still be suiting someone's purpose for the land if they are.

Edit:  According to the Assessor's web site, the owners apparently are in St. Louis.  There are four tracts which comprise this trailer lot, combined, they are assessed $1916 per year in property tax.  Now there's an example of property the city should be bending over backwards to attract a buyer for rather than promoting a knock-down and re-do at 15th & Utica with something which doesn't fit the SAP and will only raise the property taxes by $1000 or so a year.

Also noticed the blank lots to the north of that are owned by Peter Mayo.  I'll mention he needs to go mow it. 

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

The elderly man who owns the old Ford building on North Main that GKFF has put all the money into renovating refused to sell that building countless times.  My understanding is, he still did not sell it but GKFF entered into a very long term lease.

That's always a solution.  Are they not still using this lot to store trailers and such?  Seems like that would still be suiting someone's purpose for the land if they are.

Edit:  According to the Assessor's web site, the owners apparently are in St. Louis.  There are four tracts which comprise this trailer lot, combined, they are assessed $1916 per year in property tax.  Now there's an example of property the city should be bending over backwards to attract a buyer for rather than promoting a knock-down and re-do at 15th & Utica with something which doesn't fit the SAP and will only raise the property taxes by $1000 or so a year.

Also noticed the blank lots to the north of that are owned by Peter Mayo.  I'll mention he needs to go mow it. 

Interesting. I wonder how long of a lease considering the massive reno.

Sounds like it's time for a reassessment! Only $1916 yet it is for sale for $3 million! Are they not allow to reassess the value until after it sells? Even if they *only* assess it at $1 million, that would still be about 8 times as much property tax.

[Conan71]

Interesting. I wonder how long of a lease considering the massive reno.

Sounds like it's time for a reassessment! Only $1916 yet it is for sale for $3 million! Are they not allow to reassess the value until after it sells? Even if they *only* assess it at $1 million, that would still be about 8 times as much property tax.

I'm assuming all four parcels are for sale for $3 mil, I've not looked this up on Loopnet personally.  If $3mm is the price only for the east lot which is 21,000 square feet then someone in St. Louis really is huffing paint.

The current assessed value of all parcels and improvements is $560,000, ($13/square foot) which is probably about right.  The fact they are asking a little less than six times that amount is irrelevant in calculating their taxes.  They can ask all they want, but it doesn't impact their tax bill.  That is the next owner's problem.

Just FYI, those four properties consist of 42,000 square feet of land.  There's a 2484 square foot building on one parcel which is deemed to have a value of $32,000.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

Lassalle's to move to larger space downtown

Lassalle's New Orleans Deli, a popular lunch spot at 601 S. Boston Ave., is moving to the Pythian Building in mid summer.

"It's a larger location at the Pythian Building where the former Quiznos was," said Chris West, who owns Lassalle's with his wife, Amanda.

"We will be adding a significant amount of new menu items and will have a full-point beer license. Our emphasis will be on Louisiana and Oklahoma breweries."

Among Lassalle's most popular items are muffulettas, a variety of po' boys, red beans and rice, gumbo, jambalaya, Amaretto bread pudding, chocolate chip cookies and sugar cookies.
West said the target date for the move is late July.

"We also will be adding Friday nights at the start to our hours of operation and more nights in the future according to how business goes," he said.

The Wests are natives of New Orleans. They settled in Tulsa in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and opened Lasalle's in 2014.

The ornate Pythian Building, 423 S. Boulder Ave., is known for its two-story lobby with colorful tile patterns, metal work, chandeliers and a fluted glass skylight.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-lassalle-s-to-move-to-larger-space-downtown/article_bd058c46-e0d4-5ff5-a31a-d0dfaba1ca9d.html

[AquaMan]

Peter Mayo has told me the same thing.  Sooner or later someone will want the dirt bad enough they will pay the price.


I know it is their right and is perhaps a smart thing to do for them, but it sucks when landowners hinder progress by sitting on a property and doing nothing with it waiting for a big payday (which will ultimately be thanks to all of the hard work many others have put into the Brady District). They could at least do a call for proposals and see if any developers might create an idea which would boost the land value and the area.

You need to know their motives before you consider them hindering progress in hopes of a big payday. It is not uncommon for a property owner to attach an unreasonable price to a property simply to dissuade buyers. They may have other uses planned for the property or it may be financially wise for them to hold it for later sale. Especially out of town owners. If someone does want to pay that price then fine, otherwise their interests probably have little to do with ours.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

You need to know their motives before you consider them hindering progress in hopes of a big payday. It is not uncommon for a property owner to attach an unreasonable price to a property simply to dissuade buyers. They may have other uses planned for the property or it may be financially wise for them to hold it for later sale. Especially out of town owners. If someone does want to pay that price then fine, otherwise their interests probably have little to do with ours.

If they want to dissuade buyers, they could just take the for sale listing down. Whether it is their intent or not, if they have big empty lots in one of the hottest areas in town and they don't sell it or have plans to develop it, they are hindering progress. If they had plans to develop it, why would they have it listed for sale?

[heironymouspasparagus]

If they want to dissuade buyers, they could just take the for sale listing down. Whether it is their intent or not, if they have big empty lots in one of the hottest areas in town and they don't sell it or have plans to develop it, they are hindering progress. If they had plans to develop it, why would they have it listed for sale?

Ahhh...growth for growth's sake....

Hindering progress - one of the worst "4 letter words" around.  And the attitude that goes with it. 


Listing it for sale the way they have is called "fishing" - if they can get someone to bite, like AquaMan said, then they will be very happy to let it go and let "Progress" proceed.  If no one is willing to pay the price, then the people who are "in the market" to buy are actually the one's hindering progress because they are not willing to pay the owner's desired price - it's like if I go into a Honda dealer and say I want an Accord.  But since the dealer is unwilling to sell me a new one for $2,500, he is hindering progress - of me getting what I want...sounds like a Communist plot.  The dealer should be punished!  Raise his taxes!  Charge him fees!!  Do something so I can have my way....!!

[AquaMan]

The concrete plant on West Bank has been accused of the same. But they bought the land fair and square and have use for it. If you want it you'll have to pay them not just the value of the land, but the inconvenience of having to relocate, having to pay todays prices and probably include a healthy profit. If the city/county finds it is indeed hindering the public good, they have a process to wrench it out of their hands called eminent domain. CF made good points about why they may have listed it which don't include that they really want to sell it. In fact, it may be trolling by the realtor.