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November 17, 2017, 01:39:43 pm
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Author Topic: 2nd & Greenwood  (Read 4120 times)
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« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2017, 11:20:50 am »

I do not dispute that if you want to get drunk and act stupid, there are plenty of places to go downtown for that. I just do not see why Tulsa had to spend millions and millions of tax dollars to develop that environment. That's it. And "nightlife" runs roughly 8-2. There are 18 hours of the day to fill, and apparently people are more interested in spending that time out where I live. Where Tulsa (or the county) has not invested millions to prop up. Why is that?

You don't know what you're talking about.  It's cool.  Downtown has improved demonstrably, due to both public and private efforts, and that has benefited the quality of life.  You can disagree about that, but you are just wrong. 
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2017, 11:32:49 am »

Homelessness is a huge deal with me. It may be worse elsewhere, but that does not make me feel any better. And it's not about the threat they pose, it's about failure, human misery and inability to problem solve. And homelessness is f*cking Exhibit A as to why giving money to government via taxes does not fix this thing. 

I've posted the numbers on here before that Tulsa has one of the lowest rates of homelessness for larger cities in the US. We currently donate enough to feed and house all of them. The money just needs to be appropriated (preferably by non-profits) towards the right avenues and we can virtually eliminate this like they did in Utah, the most conservative state in the union.

How did Utah (mostly) fix it? "Housing First" which is what the Denver House in Tulsa is working on with their "Better Box Project".

Article about what Utah did:
http://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how

Here is more info on that where you can donate if you want to help end homelessness in Tulsa:
https://mhat.secure.force.com/betterboxproject2014?id=a20A000000BrR84


We can complain, but here is one of many organizations working on an actual solution that has been proven to work. Furthermore, the generous citizens of Tulsa have a history of being exceptionally generous and supporting organizations like John 3:16 and Salvation Army that are helping these people day to day.

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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2017, 11:35:36 am »

Homelessness is a huge deal with me. It may be worse elsewhere, but that does not make me feel any better. And it's not about the threat they pose, it's about failure, human misery and inability to problem solve. And homelessness is f*cking Exhibit A as to why giving money to government via taxes does not fix this thing. 

And moving away to far south Tulsa does not fix homelessness. It is denial of the issue by avoidance. I am happy to see how it is improving and excited about new programs like the mayor is implementing to hire panhandlers to work in landscaping/cleaning the city. I am more thrilled when private non-profits do it and it is important to give to those that are using the money effectively.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2017, 11:53:36 am »

I do not dispute that if you want to get drunk and act stupid, there are plenty of places to go downtown for that. I just do not see why Tulsa had to spend millions and millions of tax dollars to develop that environment. That's it. And "nightlife" runs roughly 8-2. There are 18 hours of the day to fill, and apparently people are more interested in spending that time out where I live. Where Tulsa (or the county) has not invested millions to prop up. Why is that?

There is so much to do downtown, far more than all of south Tulsa combined: semipro-soccer & baseball, comedy shows, tons of shows/events at Cain's, BOK, and Brady Theatre. There's music and performances at the PAC, art galleries, lots of festivals (MayFest, Blue Dome Arts Fest, Dia de Los Muertos, a huge bbq fest, winterfest, Cinco de Mayo), monthly Art displays (First Friday Brady Art Crawl attended by thousands), free concerts outside at Guthrie Green, sporting events (Tulsa Tough), big concert festivals with 40,000+ attendees.

Then on things you can more actively take part in: art classes/studios you can use, woodworking classes, glass-blowing, music school(s), pottery, several gyms including crossfit, bicycling/running groups, bicycle-build workshops, free yoga/tai chi/kung fu classes at Guthrie Green. Not to mention there's about a dozen churches and all of their activities.

Most all of those things happen during the afternoons and early evenings. I was never able to find anywhere close to all of that in South Tulsa or living in the suburbs. If they do have versions of these things, they're typically sparsely-attended bad knock-offs not worth going to.
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DTowner
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« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2017, 12:28:06 pm »

There is so much to do downtown, far more than all of south Tulsa combined: semipro-soccer & baseball, comedy shows, tons of shows/events at Cain's, BOK, and Brady Theatre. There's music and performances at the PAC, art galleries, lots of festivals (MayFest, Blue Dome Arts Fest, Dia de Los Muertos, a huge bbq fest, winterfest, Cinco de Mayo), monthly Art displays (First Friday Brady Art Crawl attended by thousands), free concerts outside at Guthrie Green, sporting events (Tulsa Tough), big concert festivals with 40,000+ attendees.

Then on things you can more actively take part in: art classes/studios you can use, woodworking classes, glass-blowing, music school(s), pottery, several gyms including crossfit, bicycling/running groups, bicycle-build workshops, free yoga/tai chi/kung fu classes at Guthrie Green. Not to mention there's about a dozen churches and all of their activities.

Most all of those things happen during the afternoons and early evenings. I was never able to find anywhere close to all of that in South Tulsa or living in the suburbs. If they do have versions of these things, they're typically sparsely-attended bad knock-offs not worth going to.

You’re wasting your time.  Guido comes to downtown on Saturday afternoon of a holiday weekend and complains there is no one there but the homeless.  Then he complains that he doesn’t like all those cars, people and big box stores in south Tulsa (he doesn’t comment about the homeless at the major south Tulsa intersections, so they must not exist in his world).  While his assertion that downtown was dead on a Saturday afternoon is contrary to everything I’ve witnessed over the past 20 years and seems dubious at best, it doesn’t matter because he is either intentionally trying to provoke people or he is just one of those sad people for whom their only joy comes from complaining about everything. 
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2017, 12:36:59 pm »

You’re wasting your time.  Guido comes to downtown on Saturday afternoon of a holiday weekend and complains there is no one there but the homeless.  Then he complains that he doesn’t like all those cars, people and big box stores in south Tulsa (he doesn’t comment about the homeless at the major south Tulsa intersections, so they must not exist in his world).  While his assertion that downtown was dead on a Saturday afternoon is contrary to everything I’ve witnessed over the past 20 years and seems dubious at best, it doesn’t matter because he is either intentionally trying to provoke people or he is just one of those sad people for whom their only joy comes from complaining about everything. 


Good points. I listed that out more for others who might stumble on this post, so they can see all the stuff there is to do (and I listed just a fraction). Plus, I like to recall all of that and keep it fresh in my mind why I live close to downtown rather than in the sleepy 'burbs.  Grin
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« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2017, 12:48:02 pm »

Good points. I listed that out more for others who might stumble on this post, so they can see all the stuff there is to do (and I listed just a fraction). Plus, I like to recall all of that and keep it fresh in my mind why I live close to downtown rather than in the sleepy 'burbs.  Grin

You and me both.   I moved from Dallas and lived in Owasso for 10 years.  One-acre lot, three car garage, lots of extra room for stuff, etc.  I have nothing against Owasso.  Nice town, and solid school. Just got tired of being so far away from everything. Moved to midtown 2-3 years ago. I gave up one of the garage doors and most of my yard, but I can walk to the river parks and TGP, and to Brookside, and bike to Cherry street or downtown.  So much to do.  Love it here.  Never going back.

 
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guido911
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« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2017, 12:58:51 pm »

You’re wasting your time.  Guido comes to downtown on Saturday afternoon of a holiday weekend and complains there is no one there but the homeless.  Then he complains that he doesn’t like all those cars, people and big box stores in south Tulsa (he doesn’t comment about the homeless at the major south Tulsa intersections, so they must not exist in his world).  While his assertion that downtown was dead on a Saturday afternoon is contrary to everything I’ve witnessed over the past 20 years and seems dubious at best, it doesn’t matter because he is either intentionally trying to provoke people or he is just one of those sad people for whom their only joy comes from complaining about everything. 


I was downtown to HELP the homeless this holiday weekend.  Because, as I have now learned, people are more interested in enjoying themselves last weekend rather than helping others.
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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2017, 01:37:03 pm »

I was downtown to HELP the homeless this holiday weekend.  Because, as I have now learned, people are more interested in enjoying themselves last weekend rather than helping others.

That’s to be commended, but your posts criticized how all the money Tulsa invested in downtown was wasted because no one was there on a Saturday except for the homeless.
 
“I think if we keep spending more and more money there, and continue focusing our attention on making that place better, it might not suck as much as it did this weekend. “

“I just do not see why Tulsa had to spend millions and millions of tax dollars to develop that environment. That's it.”

Now you tell us that your day downtown was spent helping the homeless and, surprisingly, during that day you saw a lot of homeless people. Sorry, but when you post on a thread about development at 2nd & Greenwood that downtown Tulsa “sucks” because you saw a lot of homeless people during your Saturday afternoon downtown helping the homeless, you have no credibility.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 01:41:25 pm by DTowner » Logged
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2017, 02:51:24 pm »

That’s to be commended, but your posts criticized how all the money Tulsa invested in downtown was wasted because no one was there on a Saturday except for the homeless.
 
“I think if we keep spending more and more money there, and continue focusing our attention on making that place better, it might not suck as much as it did this weekend. “

“I just do not see why Tulsa had to spend millions and millions of tax dollars to develop that environment. That's it.”

Now you tell us that your day downtown was spent helping the homeless and, surprisingly, during that day you saw a lot of homeless people. Sorry, but when you post on a thread about development at 2nd & Greenwood that downtown Tulsa “sucks” because you saw a lot of homeless people during your Saturday afternoon downtown helping the homeless, you have no credibility.



911... we have a burn victim! Grin
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2017, 02:53:07 pm »

I was downtown to HELP the homeless this holiday weekend.  Because, as I have now learned, people are more interested in enjoying themselves last weekend rather than helping others.

Ah, how about that virtue signaling! We have a real saint on our hands.
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guido911
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« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2017, 03:06:05 pm »

That’s to be commended, but your posts criticized how all the money Tulsa invested in downtown was wasted because no one was there on a Saturday except for the homeless.
 
“I think if we keep spending more and more money there, and continue focusing our attention on making that place better, it might not suck as much as it did this weekend. “

“I just do not see why Tulsa had to spend millions and millions of tax dollars to develop that environment. That's it.”

Now you tell us that your day downtown was spent helping the homeless and, surprisingly, during that day you saw a lot of homeless people. Sorry, but when you post on a thread about development at 2nd & Greenwood that downtown Tulsa “sucks” because you saw a lot of homeless people during your Saturday afternoon downtown helping the homeless, you have no credibility.


I mentioned seeing a lot of homeless because that is all I essentially saw.  That said, since this place is booming, we can stop spending money on it. It can support itself now.
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guido911
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« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2017, 03:11:36 pm »

Ah, how about that virtue signaling! We have a real saint on our hands.

Virtue signaling? Explaining why I was in a place and and that I was helping those some people in here thought I was critiquing is virtue signaling? Someone's got a little "I am a jealous, thoughtless, and uncaring F so I will vent at those that try to help" complex.
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2017, 05:35:33 pm »

Fellas.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2017, 08:31:29 pm »

I will defend guido on one thing. He is right that we have spent a ton of money on downtown to the detriment of other areas. At some point, downtown should be able to survive without additional government subsidy. If it can't, then we have wasted millions of dollars.
 
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