One less QT today

[heironymouspasparagus]

More of it is coming out.  Apparently there was video after the event that was posted to social media by onlookers.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/
It inadvertently adds confirmation to the officer's account.  I would assume there would be quite a bit more "crowd video coverage" emerging.

Prelim autopsy info coming out too that corroborates the officer's story, and discounts the account that he was "shot in the back as he was fleeing with his hands up".
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=2&referrer=

Again. . .none of this will matter.

I reposted your first link...didn't look at it until after commenting....

Too many missing links, but starting to fill in....

[patric]

So, with all the shots coming from the front, that little punk that was with him robbing the convenience store and talking to the cameras has been shown to be totally lies.
This sounds suspiciously like the account the other cop at the scene gave....from a different standpoint....
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ijreview.com%2F2014%2F08%2F168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting%2F&h=QAQHo9jYx

That article seems to misinterpret "but he kept coming toward him" as meaning the teen advancing, not the officer.
At this point, the teen has already been shot at least once, so it flies in the face of reason for him to stop retreating and be "coming at" the cop shooting at him.

The officer drew his weapon, and "he said, 'I'll shoot you' or 'I'm going to shoot' " and almost instantaneously fired his weapon, hitting Brown, Johnson said.
Johnson and a bloodied Brown took off running, and Johnson hid behind the first car he saw, he said. The officer got out of his car.

"I saw the officer proceeding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn, and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike," Johnson told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer firing several more shots into my friend, and he hit the ground and died."

At this point, witnesses are saying the officer stood over the body and fired more rounds.
Almost every witness account has the victim facing the officer with his hands up and being shot.  It would not be surprising that a team of union lawyers would want to re-engineer those accounts to something more favorable to their client.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/

[patric]

The real, law abiding protestors have been obeying the law and leaving at curfew - it's the gangs that are left at night - watch for the red and dark blue t-shirts...I have spotted quite a few on the CNN news feed - more red obvious than blue.   Jesse Jackson just said it's not the people of Ferguson....it's outsiders.  Yeah, there are a lot of outsiders - plus the local gangs.

One group throws a Molotov cocktail, while another rushes to put out the fire.  One group lives there, the other obviously doesnt.

Meanwhile the National Guard is taking over for the highway patrol, who took over for the county police who took over for the local police.

[guido911]

Looks like the media has something to say about the looters.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwWHohUsTyQ[/youtube]

[Gaspar]

That article seems to misinterpret "but he kept coming toward him" as meaning the teen advancing, not the officer.
At this point, the teen has already been shot at least once, so it flies in the face of reason for him to stop retreating and be "coming at" the cop shooting at him.

The officer drew his weapon, and "he said, 'I'll shoot you' or 'I'm going to shoot' " and almost instantaneously fired his weapon, hitting Brown, Johnson said.
Johnson and a bloodied Brown took off running, and Johnson hid behind the first car he saw, he said. The officer got out of his car.

"I saw the officer proceeding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn, and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike," Johnson told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer firing several more shots into my friend, and he hit the ground and died."

At this point, witnesses are saying the officer stood over the body and fired more rounds.
Almost every witness account has the victim facing the officer with his hands up and being shot.  It would not be surprising that a team of union lawyers would want to re-engineer those accounts to something more favorable to their client.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/

At this point all we have is varying narratives and some forensic evidence. Your comment about reason is indeed accurate.  To employ reason we would need to apply it to evidence only, and we don't have much of that.  What we can do is use reason to discount anything false based on the evidence we do have.

Most of the narratives from onlookers, as well as the police statements put Brown (and in some cases both Brown & Johnson) in the officer's car at some point where there was some kind of struggle, and this would follow the physical evidence of Wilson being treated after the shooting for a swollen face/jaw, however in Johnson's account, neither were in the officer's vehicle.  

We can automatically discount any of the eye-witness accounts that claim Brown was shot several times while he was running away, because we know how many shots were fired, where, and how many hit the body, and where.  With the exception of any mention of a struggle in the vehicle, Johnson's narrative is possible.

In Johnson's account, the officer opened fire on Brown after he refused to move from the middle of the street.  He also alleges that the officer grabbed brown around the neck and choked him. Brown then tried to pull away to avoid being choked, Johnson says.  If this is true, we will expect forensic evidence to show that Brown was choked or at least restrained by the neck.  This is very important, because the neck is a part of the body that is extremely sensitive to bruising and capillary damage.

“They’re not wrestling so much as his arm went from his throat to now clenched on his shirt … It’s like tug of war. He’s trying to pull him in. He’s pulling away, that’s when I heard, ‘I’m gonna shoot you,’” Johnson said.

The two realized the officer had pulled out a hand gun and pointed it at Brown. The officer repeated, “I’ll shoot.” Seconds later, the first shot went off. Johnson says the officer let go after he shot Brown.

Brown and Johnson then ran towards a line of three cars on the side of the street. Johnson went behind the first, but Brown ran past. Brown yelled “Keep running, bro!” But by the time he got to the third car, the officer shot Brown in the back, according to Johnson.

Johnson says Brown stopped, put his hands up, turned around, and yelled he didn't have a gun.

The officer allegedly shot several more times, Brown fell to the ground, and Johnson ran to his apartment.

“He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and put his hands in the air, and he started to get down,” Johnson said. “But the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and fired several more shots.”

From the reports & shells at the scene we know that Wilson's weapon was fired at least once while he was still in his vehicle, but Johnson doesn't mention this at all.  Again, forensic evidence will determine wether a gun was fired in a struggle, and GSR/bullet will paint a picture of how and where.

This account was told on the Radio on August 15th by someone who claims to be the friend of Officer Wilson's wife.  It is completely unsubstantiated because the woman wishes to remain anonymous, and I thought nothing of it until that video/audio surfaced from the scene after this radio interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzBdY6WXeRE
“He pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them. Tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And, then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.

And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and them Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off.

Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

So, we're not really all that much closer to the truth, but we are further from many of the false narratives that simply cannot be substantiated by evidence, and therefore are not reasonable to accept.

I expect that the primary forensic report will not be released until toxicology is returned.  

[guido911]

This is why I kept talking about just waiting. RM is talking about outrage, patric is taking the opportunity to talk about his issue: police abuse, and Harrison Alexernder calling it a stupid cop situation. Even if it turns out that there is something to be outraged about, can't the outrage wait until something other than a young African American male was killed?

[DolfanBob]

I'm thinking a tazer would have worked just fine in this situation. Barring of course if the big fat kid was outrunning the skinny cop. But it looks as if a couple of hot heads prevailed and boom goes the dynamite.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

One group throws a Molotov cocktail, while another rushes to put out the fire.  One group lives there, the other obviously doesnt.

Kids and grandkids live near there.  It is an area of known gang activity - a lot of it - and those gangs do live there.  Drive up Florissant from downtown and you will be in the bloods neighborhood.  You will see lots of red shirts.  Like CNN was showing last night.  

The peaceful protestors are all gone by 9 or 10.  It's gangs after that.

And then there is the comment - kinda garbled - about Brown jumping on the truck... the cop's suv??  Need more information....

Where are all the videos??   

[Gaspar]

This is why I kept talking about just waiting. RM is talking about outrage, patric is taking the opportunity to talk about his issue: police abuse, and Harrison Alexernder calling it a stupid cop situation. Even if it turns out that there is something to be outraged about, can't the outrage wait until something other than a young African American male was killed?

It makes no difference. There will be outrage.  Even if overwhelming evidence, video, audio, and physical shows the cop to be justified and acting in his own self defense, there will still be outrage.  Even if the officer is arrested and charged with murder, there will still be outrage. This is no longer about Brown (the human being).  This is about a pound of flesh.  This is raw emotion being fueled by those who stand to benefit from it. . .and now it is going to become political, because it has capital there too.  Brown is now a commodity to be bought and sold by those who do it best.

[tulsa_fan]

It makes no difference. There will be outrage.  Even if overwhelming evidence, video, audio, and physical shows the cop to be justified and acting in his own self defense, there will still be outrage.  Even if the officer is arrested and charged with murder, there will still be outrage. This is no longer about Brown (the human being).  This is about a pound of flesh.  This is raw emotion being fueled by those who stand to benefit from it. . .and now it is going to become political, because it has capital there too.  Brown is now a commodity to be bought and sold by those who do it best.

Sadly, this is the most true statement I've heard about this entire incident!

[Conan71]

It makes no difference. There will be outrage.  Even if overwhelming evidence, video, audio, and physical shows the cop to be justified and acting in his own self defense, there will still be outrage.  Even if the officer is arrested and charged with murder, there will still be outrage. This is no longer about Brown (the human being).  This is about a pound of flesh.  This is raw emotion being fueled by those who stand to benefit from it. . .and now it is going to become political, because it has capital there too.  Brown is now a commodity to be bought and sold by those who do it best.

And if no state charges are brought on the cop, I’m sure Eric Holder will be more than happy to oblige.

[Gaspar]

And if no state charges are brought on the cop, I’m sure Eric Holder will be more than happy to oblige.

They are discussing it as we speak in the oval office.

[RecycleMichael]

Even if it turns out that there is something to be outraged about, can't the outrage wait until something other than a young African American male was killed?

Wait for what? A police internal investigation that they have said might take weeks and weeks?

I am not condoning five days of riots either.

But ignoring what appears to be at best a poorly trained cop who shot a suspect six times for shoplifting some cigars is wrong as well. Leaving the suspect body on the ground for hours and refusing to release the officer's name for days just added to the frustration.

But middle-aged white people living in south Tulsa must know all about what is must be to live in an inner city gangland neighborhood. Why else would you post video of him shoplifting as an excuse for his death?

[guido911]

Wait for what? A police internal investigation that they have said might take weeks and weeks?

I am not condoning five days of riots either.

But ignoring what appears to be at best a poorly trained cop who shot a suspect six times for shoplifting some cigars is wrong as well. Leaving the suspect body on the ground for hours and refusing to release the officer's name for days just added to the frustration.

But middle-aged white people living in south Tulsa must know all about what is must be to live in an inner city gangland neighborhood. Why else would you post video of him shoplifting as an excuse for his death?

Understood. Better to possibly overreact and scream outrage now. That way you are ahead of the game. 

[RecycleMichael]

I would rather see peaceful protests than anything. Unfortunately, that didn't and won't happen.

You seem to think everyone should just shut up and wait. Your view would have been to wait for the British Army to have weeks and weeks to explain their new tax on tea before acting.

I don't want to be British. The food sucks.