100th Birthday of The Income Tax

[TeeDub]

If you want to question government waste, ask why we spend as much on the military as the next 5 largest countries combined.

I guess when you figure in slave wages and/or low pay, that accounts for the fact that China has an army roughly twice our size?    (That and it's cheaper to steal the technology than research it themselves.)

[Gaspar]

About a 1/2 to 1 beer difference when comparing sixpaks.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I try to keep my personal alcohol levels to always be less than 3.2% by weight.

Thank goodness for my size for it allows me to drink a lot.

Better than 7 lbs alcohol!!  About a gallon.  Is that per day?  Or per drink?

[nathanm]

I guess when you figure in slave wages and/or low pay, that accounts for the fact that China has an army roughly twice our size?    (That and it's cheaper to steal the technology than research it themselves.)

Stealing the technology does not make it any cheaper to manufacture. If anything it makes it more expensive and leaves you with worse quality.

Perhaps it has more to do with us having literally half the world fleet of aircraft carriers (at about $5 or $6 billion a pop in today's dollars), more than half the world fleet of nuclear submarines, again at multiple billions per boat, a third of the world's destroyers, 75% of all the world's attack helicopters, and about half the world's nuclear arms, which represent better than a trillion dollars of investment (and cost a smile ton in upkeep and security). Plus over a thousand military bases in more than 60 countries with the better part of half a million buildings on around 30 million acres of land.

It's a wonder our military doesn't suck up even more spending than they do.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's a wonder our military doesn't suck up even more spending than they do.

They do - it's just on other budgets.

[nathanm]

They do - it's just on other budgets.

The $933 billion figure I posted earlier in the thread counts that, or at least tries to as much as possible. The only thing that isn't counted is the interest on past defense spending, which would put the total between $1 and $1.1 trillion a year if I remember correctly.

[swake]

It is 1/4 of a mile off the highway next to the trailhead.  That area is closed for half the year.  I am willing to bet the funds could have been spent on a portable outhouse that could be towed away in the winter.  Perhaps take the same $9,000 toilet and install it in a nice wooden building with skids that could be loaded up and hauled to another site in the off-season.  Gosh, it only took me about two minutes to think up that innovative solution that would likely save about $80K.

Where are you going to store it? It's 300 miles to Anchorage from there, about the same to Fairbanks. You would need land to store the outhouse. And a building to store it in. And some way to secure the new building. And need to pay to move it back and forth each year. How much does all of that cost?

[swake]

If you want to question government waste, ask why we spend as much on the military as the next 5 largest countries combined. Like any other bureaucracy, the military has to justify it's existence in order to keep receiving funds.

It's not really the next five, it's the next 16 countries.

[Townsend]

It's not really the next five, it's the next 16 countries.

Eh, we'll split the difference.  Let's throw in a graph to make it pretty:



SOURCE: Data from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute - See more at: http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison#sthash.Wu71hWem.dpuf

The U.S. spent more on defense in 2012 than did the countries with the next 10 highest defense budgets combined - See more at: http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison#sthash.Wu71hWem.dpuf

[Gaspar]

Where are you going to store it? It's 300 miles to Anchorage from there, about the same to Fairbanks. You would need land to store the outhouse. And a building to store it in. And some way to secure the new building. And need to pay to move it back and forth each year. How much does all of that cost?

Excellent point!  That would be like storing a Tulsa toilet down in Texas. 

Of course you could always store it just 3 miles up the road at the Tangle River Inn.



I mean it's no $100K Smooter, but you can get a nice room, and there is also a gas station and restaurant. I bet they would be happy to store a porta-smooter in one of the sheds in the off season. 

Ok, here's the silly little capitalist in me agan. . .perhaps you could not buy a $100K smooter, and instead, sell a small sign in the trailhead parking lot to Nadine at the Tangle River that advertises clean restrooms, a cafe, and lodging just three miles up the road?  You could charge her say $25 a month.  How about that?

[swake]

Excellent point!  That would be like storing a Tulsa toilet down in Texas. 

Of course you could always store it just 3 miles up the road at the Tangle River Inn.



I mean it's no $100K Smooter, but you can get a nice room, and there is also a gas station and restaurant. I bet they would be happy to store a porta-smooter in one of the sheds in the off season. 

Ok, here's the silly little capitalist in me agan. . .perhaps you could not buy a $100K smooter, and instead, sell a small sign in the trailhead parking lot to Nadine at the Tangle River that advertises clean restrooms, a cafe, and lodging just three miles up the road?  You could charge her say $25 a month.  How about that?

If you store it three miles away that changes the calculation very little. You still have to have land to store it on, a building to store it in, and to secure said building. And doing all that in such a remote location drives up the construction cost of said storage building, a lot.

Look, you are worried about an isolated toilet. How about we not build more of these $13 billion aircraft carriers? Then you could save as much as not building 130,000 of these overpriced toilets. And that's not even counting the even larger cost to equip the carrier, man it and run it

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/aircraft-carrier-uss-gerald-ford-plagued-glitches-cost-overruns

Or what about the F-35? We are spending $1.5 TRILLION for a plane plagued by problems that we would not use much even if it did work in our current wars.  That would buy 15 million outhouses. That’s more money than Russia would spend on its entire military for 15 years.

[Gaspar]

If you store it three miles away that changes the calculation very little. You still have to have land to store it on, a building to store it in, and to secure said building. And doing all that in such a remote location drives up the construction cost of said storage building, a lot.

Look, you are worried about an isolated toilet. How about we not build more of these $13 billion aircraft carriers? Then you could save as much as not building 130,000 of these overpriced toilets. And that's not even counting the even larger cost to equip the carrier, man it and run it

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/aircraft-carrier-uss-gerald-ford-plagued-glitches-cost-overruns

Or what about the F-35? We are spending $1.5 TRILLION for a plane plagued by problems that we would not use much even if it did work in our current wars.  That would buy 15 million outhouses. That’s more money than Russia would spend on its entire military for 15 years.

Ok! Deal!  Oh, wait, I don't have that kind of authority. 

I think both of your examples and my example are all excellent case studies for government waste.  One does not justify the other. 

[rebound]

Yeah, but if you are going to diet, it's more rational to focus on eliminating the Big Mac and large fries, and worrying a little less about switching to diet Coke. 

[Gaspar]

Yeah, but if you are going to diet, it's more rational to focus on eliminating the Big Mac and large fries, and worrying a little less about switching to diet Coke. 

Sure.  Priorities are important, but too often people use such examples as justification or distraction.  The point is that spending $100k on a toilet, 3 miles away from a gas station with a lodge, toilets and restaurant is not a justified expense.  Regardless of what is happening elsewhere, it is not justified.

[nathanm]

Sure.  Priorities are important, but too often people use such examples as justification or distraction.  The point is that spending $100k on a toilet, 3 miles away from a gas station with a lodge, toilets and restaurant is not a justified expense.  Regardless of what is happening elsewhere, it is not justified.

In your mind a toilet in a place you've never seen and know nothing about other than what you saw in Google Earth is the waste. Yes, the obscure thing you can't even get reliable information on because its cost was .000000083% of the federal budget is a good example of waste. Why don't you come back with information about how the toilet was authorized and the paperwork involved in it and tell us why the government thought they needed to build a toilet. I would understand your complaint better if we were in the midst of some massive toilet building program and were building 100,000 of these things a year or something.

Let's not forget that if the government told people "go up the road 3 miles and use the toilet at the gas station" you'd be complaining about the evil government driving up the cost of business by telling people to use their toilets. Of course, the only reason you're talking about toilets at all is as a distraction from spending that you like that not only would add up to something if we were doing a lot of it but actually does make up a significant fraction of the budget.