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November 22, 2017, 03:49:28 pm
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Author Topic: Another stab at liquor law reform  (Read 61150 times)
custosnox
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« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 12:58:06 pm »

I just wonder if it will ever get on the ballots without a "you must give up your firstborn" rider on it.
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DTowner
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2011, 01:32:06 pm »

I think Oklahoma's liquor laws definitley need reforming and I strongly support such a change, but I'm always dubious of claims that this change will create lots of new jobs and generate lots of new taxes.  Everything CostCo sells can currently be purchased in Okla. (Yeah, I know, CostCo has many of its own branded items, but non-CostCo equivalents are available).  While the CostCo stores will add jobs and create tax revenue, the total number of jobs and revenue only goes up if there is no loss of sales or jobs at existing stores.  Unless all of Okla. goes on a drinking binge with the arrival of CostCo, that seems unlikely.  While it doesn't justify our goofy laws, I expect the claim that CostCo will put hundreds of mom and pop liquor stores out of business will resonate with many, not the least because it's probably true (althought not in the numbers opponents will claim).
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 01:37:25 pm »

How long's it been since you've given that a shot?

Ever notice "Oklahoma" is not on the drop down?

If you type in "Oklahoma" then the only options you have to purchase are the products with no alcohol in them.

Not directly from wineries, but when title passes to a third party shipper things get a lot easier.
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Townsend
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2011, 01:41:18 pm »

Not directly from wineries, but when title passes to a third party shipper things get a lot easier.

I guess the laws worked on me.  I never cared enough to try any harder.  I just bought when I was out of state.

Perhaps the "they" should think about the lost tax revenue when people do what I do.  It got us the lott-ry.
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Conan71
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2011, 01:42:09 pm »

I think Oklahoma's liquor laws definitley need reforming and I strongly support such a change, but I'm always dubious of claims that this change will create lots of new jobs and generate lots of new taxes.  Everything CostCo sells can currently be purchased in Okla. (Yeah, I know, CostCo has many of its own branded items, but non-CostCo equivalents are available).  While the CostCo stores will add jobs and create tax revenue, the total number of jobs and revenue only goes up if there is no loss of sales or jobs at existing stores.  Unless all of Okla. goes on a drinking binge with the arrival of CostCo, that seems unlikely.  While it doesn't justify our goofy laws, I expect the claim that CostCo will put hundreds of mom and pop liquor stores out of business will resonate with many, not the least because it's probably true (althought not in the numbers opponents will claim).

Exactly.  Without a change in population or it stimulates consumer behavior other retailers are incapable of tapping, then it simply cannibalizes the existing base.
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joiei
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2011, 01:59:09 pm »

I have bought several times from Sherry-Lehmann in NYC.  Especially if they have free shipping which they occasionally do. 
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2011, 02:00:41 pm »

I have bought several times from Sherry-Lehmann in NYC.  Especially if they have free shipping which they occasionally do. 

pm him...no need to expose the loopholes.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2011, 03:10:50 pm »

How long's it been since you've given that a shot?

Ever notice "Oklahoma" is not on the drop down?

If you type in "Oklahoma" then the only options you have to purchase are the products with no alcohol in them.

I do.

Order from www.winex.com.

They have an email club and send out notices on good deals, closeouts, etc.  And, the will hold it for free, climate controlled, in situations where you buy now on a deal, but want it shipped in the fall when the weather cools down to avoid heat damage issues during shipping.

Never a problem shipping to OK.
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Townsend
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« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 03:42:23 pm »

I do.

Order from www.winex.com.

They have an email club and send out notices on good deals, closeouts, etc.  And, the will hold it for free, climate controlled, in situations where you buy now on a deal, but want it shipped in the fall when the weather cools down to avoid heat damage issues during shipping.

Never a problem shipping to OK.

I appreciate the advice.  I'll put a list together and see how it goes.
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nathanm
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« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 03:56:18 pm »

I think Oklahoma's liquor laws definitley need reforming and I strongly support such a change, but I'm always dubious of claims that this change will create lots of new jobs and generate lots of new taxes. 
It won't create new jobs, but it will create better jobs. Costco has a long history of paying higher wages because they feel like they get better employees by doing so. That will bring in more tax money, both through increased income tax collections and increased sales tax collections as jobs move in their direction.

And this isn't going to put liquor stores out of business. It will give them a good incentive to have better wine selection. And give them a wider variety of products to sell.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2011, 08:18:13 am »

It won't create new jobs, but it will create better jobs. Costco has a long history of paying higher wages because they feel like they get better employees by doing so. That will bring in more tax money, both through increased income tax collections and increased sales tax collections as jobs move in their direction.

And this isn't going to put liquor stores out of business. It will give them a good incentive to have better wine selection. And give them a wider variety of products to sell.

Better pay means better employees?! Heresy!

I agree that if Costco made such an investment that even though at first it is simply slicing the pie into smaller pieces, that is temporary. Eventually the influx of capital from outside the state to build and operate the stores plus the higher wages paid will translate to increased tax revenues, a better standard of living and perhaps even increased population. Those who shop Costco are passionate about them. They might not come here because of them, but they may refuse to move here without them. Sort of like Whole Foods people.

As far as the package liquour stores, don't confuse them with the facts. They like having the population forced into their stores.
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« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2011, 09:06:05 am »

It won't create new jobs, but it will create better jobs. Costco has a long history of paying higher wages because they feel like they get better employees by doing so. That will bring in more tax money, both through increased income tax collections and increased sales tax collections as jobs move in their direction.

And this isn't going to put liquor stores out of business. It will give them a good incentive to have better wine selection. And give them a wider variety of products to sell.

It might stimulate a little pricing competition with Sam's Club, too. Never a bad thing in my book. 
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DTowner
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« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2011, 09:01:58 am »

It won't create new jobs, but it will create better jobs. Costco has a long history of paying higher wages because they feel like they get better employees by doing so. That will bring in more tax money, both through increased income tax collections and increased sales tax collections as jobs move in their direction.

And this isn't going to put liquor stores out of business. It will give them a good incentive to have better wine selection. And give them a wider variety of products to sell.

Four to six CostCos would seem, at best, to have a marginal impact on total wages and total tax revenues.  CostCo may pay better than average grocery stores, but they're not hiring rocket scientest.  The claim in the article was that the impact would be large.  I just don't see that happening. 

It is also hard not to believe that if the liquor laws are changed and CostCo moves in and with others, such as Wal-Mart and Reasor's, start selling real beer and wine that it will not drive some existing liquor stores out of business.  These large retailers will be able to drive down margins based on volume purchasing/sales, as well as take current high margin sales away from existing stores.  It is no different that what Wal-Mart has done to numerous small stores all across the country.  You can think that is a good thing or a bad thing, but you can't ignore it is one of the tradeoffs to be made in opening up wine and real beer sales to grocery stores.

While some of larger existing liquor stores can fight back with better selection, ultlimately all retailers' selection in Oklahoma is determined by the distributors and what it will sell to the retailer.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2011, 09:08:54 am »

Four to six CostCos would seem, at best, to have a marginal impact on total wages and total tax revenues.  CostCo may pay better than average grocery stores, but they're not hiring rocket scientest.  The claim in the article was that the impact would be large.  I just don't see that happening. 

It is also hard not to believe that if the liquor laws are changed and CostCo moves in and with others, such as Wal-Mart and Reasor's, start selling real beer and wine that it will not drive some existing liquor stores out of business.  These large retailers will be able to drive down margins based on volume purchasing/sales, as well as take current high margin sales away from existing stores.  It is no different that what Wal-Mart has done to numerous small stores all across the country.  You can think that is a good thing or a bad thing, but you can't ignore it is one of the tradeoffs to be made in opening up wine and real beer sales to grocery stores.

While some of larger existing liquor stores can fight back with better selection, ultlimately all retailers' selection in Oklahoma is determined by the distributors and what it will sell to the retailer.


Each store does about $140 million in sales, and requires massive support infrastructure.  They become an anchor for development, require massive amounts of logistical support and purchase millions in local services.  The jobs creation that takes place, does not just reflect jobs within Costco. 
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custosnox
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« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2011, 11:39:25 am »

 

It is also hard not to believe that if the liquor laws are changed and CostCo moves in and with others, such as Wal-Mart and Reasor's, start selling real beer and wine that it will not drive some existing liquor stores out of business.  These large retailers will be able to drive down margins based on volume purchasing/sales, as well as take current high margin sales away from existing stores.  It is no different that what Wal-Mart has done to numerous small stores all across the country.  You can think that is a good thing or a bad thing, but you can't ignore it is one of the tradeoffs to be made in opening up wine and real beer sales to grocery stores.

While some of larger existing liquor stores can fight back with better selection, ultlimately all retailers' selection in Oklahoma is determined by the distributors and what it will sell to the retailer.

If all that changes is the ability to sell beer and wine, then the liquor stores will only loose a small bit of their sales, but in no way be enough to cripple them or put them out of business.  If written correctly, then it might even be a small boost to them if they can sell cold, six point beer, if they are willing to put in coolers.  The only way that the individual liquor stores will really be effected is if the law is changed to allow the full sale of liquor in grocery stores.  If this was to happen, then what would remain of the liquor stores will be the cream of the crop, those that can cater to their customers.  I don't have a problem with this, or do you like the idea of a crappy liquor store on every corner, having to guess which ones actually know what they sale and can make a decent suggestion on things?
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