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November 22, 2017, 12:55:50 am
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Author Topic: Another stab at liquor law reform  (Read 61132 times)
DTowner
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« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2011, 08:25:31 am »

I will defend SoonerPoll and pollster Bill Shapard. I have been involved in a handful of projects where they were hired to do the polling, focus groups, etc.

They are by far the best in the state in the polling business. They are one of the few companies that does cell-phone number polling and they have the staff to do very complete work very timely. They predicted the Dewey election and the Fallin election scarily good.

I think the results are representative of the state's population and mentality. That makes me sad.

The fact that SoonerPoll is probably the best in the state indicates to me the question was no goof up and it was pushing for a predetermined outcome with this poll.  The easiest way to skew a poll outcome is through sample selection criteria.  The second way is question phrasing.  If the question was asked as described, that was no accident.  What do you suppose the outcome would have been had the questioned ended "would you support the change in law to create more consumer convenience and choice, price competiton, and the likihood that new sought-after retailers would locate in the State of Oklahoma."  It would be helpful to know who requested/paid for this poll, although I suspect Conan is correct.

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« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2011, 08:41:08 am »

The fact that SoonerPoll is probably the best in the state indicates to me the question was no goof up and it was pushing for a predetermined outcome with this poll.  The easiest way to skew a poll outcome is through sample selection criteria.  The second way is question phrasing.  If the question was asked as described, that was no accident.  What do you suppose the outcome would have been had the questioned ended "would you support the change in law to create more consumer convenience and choice, price competiton, and the likihood that new sought-after retailers would locate in the State of Oklahoma."  It would be helpful to know who requested/paid for this poll, although I suspect Conan is correct.



Here's the wording of all three questions posed:

http://soonerpoll.com/wpcontent/uploads/2011/08/LiquorLawChanges_082611.pdf
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« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2011, 08:43:53 am »


RM, I'll have to disagree with you on this one.
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Hoss
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« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2011, 08:48:40 am »

RM, I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

In SoonerPoll's defense, they're likely simply hired by the focus group wanting to ask the questions.  It's the focus group who's responsible for this here.  They're just doing as they've been tasked.
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
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« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2011, 08:50:55 am »

In SoonerPoll's defense, they're likely simply hired by the focus group wanting to ask the questions.  It's the focus group who's responsible for this here.  They're just doing as they've been tasked.

They've gotta get money somehow but posing questions like these are a good way to ruin a reputation.
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Hoss
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« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2011, 08:51:57 am »

They've gotta get money somehow but posing questions like these are a good way to ruin a reputation.

Point taken.
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
Conan71
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« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2011, 09:05:10 am »

The line of questioning panders to the worst fears.  Aside from the malt liquor and mad dog references in the third question, they also make mention of being able to sell high point alcohol products and wine in establishments where people under 21 can enter.  Again, pandering to fear that 16 year olds can simply walk into Reasor's and walk out with a 40 of OE.  Nevermind that I get asked for an ID to buy 3.2 beer in the grocery store while the liquor stores I frequent NEVER ask for an I.D.

IOW- due to company policies, you are far more likely to get carded at QT or Wal-Mart Market than at an independent liquor store.  It just amazes me that two or three liquor wholesalers and some lobbyists for liquor stores manage to prevent a million-plus who drink from being able to make the same decisions others do around the country.
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« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2011, 09:16:34 am »

It just amazes me that two or three liquor wholesalers and some lobbyists for liquor stores manage to prevent a million-plus who drink from being able to make the same decisions others do around the country.

They're the ones getting in the door. 

When it's election time nobody mentions this in the debates/ads.  "I proudly support changing the liquor laws in Oklahoma"  doesn't have the same ring as "Kick the illegals out", "Jesus is my savior", and "family values".
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DTowner
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« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2011, 03:33:10 pm »

It's interesting that as the three questions get more biased, the results track right along with it.  The first question is pretty neutral and the results, while a majority is opposed, the gap is not huge.  Each question gets worse and the gap towards opposed gets larger.  It would also be interesting to see a breakdown of the sample surveyed by age, area, voting history, etc.
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custosnox
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« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2011, 06:37:36 pm »

It's interesting that as the three questions get more biased, the results track right along with it.  The first question is pretty neutral and the results, while a majority is opposed, the gap is not huge.  Each question gets worse and the gap towards opposed gets larger.  It would also be interesting to see a breakdown of the sample surveyed by age, area, voting history, etc.
I had noticed the same thing.  And if this hits the ballots, I bet I can guess how the distribution companies are going to slant their propaganda against the measure.
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Conan71
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« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2011, 07:34:16 pm »

They could have simply phrased the last question as:

"Do you favor young, drunk black males wilding in the streets and having illicit sex (while hyped up on malt liquor) with your white daughters and granddaughters resulting in mulatto grandkids and great-grandkids?"
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« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2011, 07:51:36 pm »

It's interesting that as the three questions get more biased, the results track right along with it.  The first question is pretty neutral and the results, while a majority is opposed, the gap is not huge.  Each question gets worse and the gap towards opposed gets larger.  It would also be interesting to see a breakdown of the sample surveyed by age, area, voting history, etc.

I had a boss tell us one time "Word your questions, to get the answer you want." We were looking at four different recording systems for the police department and we were told to word the questionaire towards one vendor and eliminate the other three by the way the questions were written.
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Hoss
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« Reply #57 on: September 01, 2011, 07:57:13 pm »

I had a boss tell us one time "Word your questions, to get the answer you want." We were looking at four different recording systems for the police department and we were told to word the questionaire towards one vendor and eliminate the other three by the way the questions were written.

And that there, my friends, is why all polls, political or otherwise, don't really pass muster and why I almost NEVER pay any attention to them unless I'm sure they are a straight yes/no question.
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
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« Reply #58 on: September 01, 2011, 08:04:26 pm »

And that there, my friends, is why all polls, political or otherwise, don't really pass muster and why I almost NEVER pay any attention to them unless I'm sure they are a straight yes/no question.

I imagine those that wrote the questions have resumed the daily duties of "Polishing the Buckle" over the state to make sure it's not tarnished by these thoughts.  Wink
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Conan71
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« Reply #59 on: September 01, 2011, 10:07:55 pm »

I imagine those that wrote the questions have resumed the daily duties of "Polishing the Buckle" over the state to make sure it's not tarnished by these thoughts.  Wink

Or polishing their wood.

Sorry, BB has been scarce lately.  Had to add the obvious comment.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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