TU and University Blvd.

[carltonplace]

Guilty of trolling here having just read this thread. Just curious as to why and how you would change 11th, which is Route 66, into University Boulevard? From the OSU campus west of the river eastward there has been much effort spent in trying to identify it as Rt.66 including signs, street markers, sidewalks etc. As an outsider to the Universities, I don't see much identification, other than sporadic clusters of parking lots and buildings, that would tie it all together as a University Boulevard. Seems like the Rt 66 boosters will object.

IMO 6th St needs this distinction more than 11th/Route 66.

[SXSW]

IMO 6th St needs this distinction more than 11th/Route 66.

If it's 6th, so be it.  It's something to designate TU's presence and build around.  The question then would be does University Blvd go from downtown to Delaware?  Either way some kind of unified streetscape is needed along that route, and the road itself should be two lanes with bike lanes going each direction.

11th could stay as is but outside of a few markers there isn't a lot that designates it as Route 66.  Even just a different color of street sign instead of omnipresent green (or red for non-through streets) would be an improvement.  Maybe blue or yellow as it would tie back to TU, something like what Austin has done with street signs through the UT campus area making them burnt orange:

[Conan71]

So what is the area to the west zoned that makes it less desireable and cheaper to buy?  It would seem to me if the area was cheap the university that raised half a billion dollars last decade would probably buy it up.  I'm calling bs.

Second, it is a college campus.  In case you've never been on another one before kids ride bikes all over the place.  I'm guessing TU, like most every other university ignores it and there has been zero insitutional discussion about riding bikes on sidewalks.

Finally, TU does. Lot for the Kendall neighborhood via True Blue neighbors. 

You moved here too late to see the gradual decline in the area.

Speculation for years was that TU via proxy (whether it was the university, boosters, alumni, or little green men in black helicopters with TU jerseys on) was buying up the single family residences and renting them at sub-market rates which would bring in all sorts of the wrong elements which follow low-income housing.  Sort of a diabolical imminent domain, if you will.

No idea if it was true, but it's been common speculation for years.

[AquaMan]

Sixth may be a better corridor to build around. It ends right at Delaware on one end and smoothly enters the Pearl District on the other ending up downtown. The land and buildings there would be more economical to buy and the area is already benefiting from development efforts. Would really be cool to run a real trolley down that street to Centennial Plaza.

If you walk 11th (rt 66) you see more of the labeling. Its in the brickwork, the Meadow Gold sign, placards etc. No use rebranding the area if you don't have to.

[TheArtist]

No no no people, here is what we need to do.  lets think long term, grand, world class city. Create a grand park, a kind of extension of Central Park, perhaps call it "Central Park East"  between 5th and 6th street going most of the way from TU to Downtown.  Imagine looking down the TU green towards the downtown skyline over a series of parks.  On either side zone to have pedestrian friendly buildings up to a wide sidewalk, hopefully buildings of up to 5 or 6 stories. Could be a medical corridor and the area near TU have more TU and educational buildings.  The park in between the streets could vary in nature but have bike/walking trails through them all, one could have linear sidewalks with a fountain in the center for instance, the next could have a windy trail near an artificial creek, one could have a large monument or Arch de Triumph type structure in it, perhaps one would just be a flat green with nothing but grass in it, and so on.  Then the park could change in the Pearl District area, where you would then have the canal down 6th street.  The few historic or interesting buildings that are currently in the area (like any art deco ones lol) where the proposed park would be could just stay and would simply add interest to the park.  



Something like this with streets down either side, but with a series of parks down the middle and the downtown skyline at one end and TU at the other.

[jacobi]

As per theartist's suggestion of the wide Parisian-style boulevard, I would love it.  But I don't expect to see anything so grand in any of our lifetimes.

As per the general theme of this thread, there is an element of TU's plan that I think that has only been hinted at.  Part of the reason that TU seems motivated to do all of this was to keep students and their money on campus.  Why should Stedman Upham let your money run across to the metro diner?  You should eat on campus.  And being a commuter student you dare defy the will, might, majesty and glory of the TU administration you will be sentenced to an assigned parking spot on the far corners of the campus.  That means once you are on campus, you aren't going to walk to your car to go to lunch elsewhere.  If safety had been their genuine concern they could have made the campus safe it without making the journey off campus un-walkable.  They certainly could have done it without those cardboard South Tulsa apartments.

The unintended consequence of these developments is that students at TU from elsewhere are less likely to develop attachments to the city.  My best memories of TU are studying at the metro or digging through the record bins at Starship.  Less connection with the city means they are less likely to stay and build their lives here.  Or at least have some good stories from college.  I can imagine the stories as they are now. “I sat around my personalityless apartment and played video games because going out took too much effort.”
It makes me sad that TU wants to promote such a sanitized version of college life just so they can keep your money.

[TheArtist]

Don't know about the "keeping the money on campus" thing, but you do make a good point about the bland "sterility" of the campus and it not being connected to the city.  Its nice that the campus is growing and that it looks pretty, but its not really pedestrian friendly as in there is really no lively or interesting place you would want to walk to, it somehow doesn't feel welcoming in that respect.   

Arkansas has Dixon Street.  There is a great collection of shops, clubs/interesting restaurants etc. nestled right by the campus in Norman.  Stillwater has more interesting stuff nearby than TU does.  Sure you can drive places in Tulsa if you want, but otherwise there isn't anything next door to easily, enjoyably, walk to.  There aren't any cozy, interesting, or wild and crazy places right next door that your going to fondly remember.   

The campus and its surroundings look... boring.  Thats one reason I keep mentioning them "making" some sort of "place".  Even a fake little strip of shops (school bookstore) restaurants (school cafeteria) etc. would add something.     

[AquaMan]

Having gone through the OU campus corner experience, I understand what you guys mean. TU needs a campus corner even if it is a stretched out University Boulevard concept. It was fun to walk off campus and find a large variety of non-university attractions. Even Main street Norman was within walking distance and if you had to drive you could find more stuff over on Lindsey near I-35. There was a working relationship between the University and the city.

That said, OU was in fact larger than Norman at that time. Norman was laid out like a small town with a grid pattern. That was amenable to a campus corner. And, what was good for OU was good for Norman. I think many people overestimate the size and power of TU. Even combined with TCC and OSU med, it is still part of the theads of the city, not its main fabric. All three must compete with other entities that have different goals. The scope of a University Boulevard as described here would be fantastic and a great use of the area. To make it happen will require some larger association of powers.

[SXSW]

Having gone through the OU campus corner experience, I understand what you guys mean. TU needs a campus corner even if it is a stretched out University Boulevard concept. It was fun to walk off campus and find a large variety of non-university attractions. Even Main street Norman was within walking distance and if you had to drive you could find more stuff over on Lindsey near I-35. There was a working relationship between the University and the city.

That said, OU was in fact larger than Norman at that time. Norman was laid out like a small town with a grid pattern. That was amenable to a campus corner. And, what was good for OU was good for Norman. I think many people overestimate the size and power of TU. Even combined with TCC and OSU med, it is still part of the theads of the city, not its main fabric. All three must compete with other entities that have different goals. The scope of a University Boulevard as described here would be fantastic and a great use of the area. To make it happen will require some larger association of powers.

Imagine if Cherry Street was TU's campus corner.  The problem is it's not.  Any development of a new district by TU would detract from other midtown districts.  While I would love to see it happen I think that reason is why it hasn't.  The only way to get that stretch of 11th redeveloped is for TU to build its new student housing on the south side of 11th with retail space at street level.  Work with the city to do parallel parking, wider sidewalks, better lighting, street trees.  Tear down the fences along the oval and build student housing up to the sidewalk there where parking lots are currently.  Overall just embrace 11th as a mixed-use, pedestrian-friendly commercial corridor that ajoins a great older and increasingly popular neighborhood, Renaissance, to the south.  

Next time you're in Denver check out the area around the University of Denver.  Very similar in many ways to TU being a few miles from downtown in a neighborhood setting.  The university, private developers, and the city have worked hard over the past decade to urbanize the campus and its two main commercial corridors: Evans and University.  Since I lived there by campus a few years ago it has grown even more with lots of multi-story student housing with streetfront retail and restaurant along University Blvd; the campus on one side and the new development on the other.  Sound familiar?

Campus Corner in Norman is a fantastic commercial district and one of the most walkable areas in the state.  Of course it has been there for nearly a century and has seen lots of changes over time.  Something even remotely similar would be a big improvement by TU.

[Conan71]

TU used to have that "campus corner" feel until they bought up all the property on the north side of 11th St.  You had fast food, a few bars, record shop, some funky apartments, really cool retro diner, etc.

TU essentially bought up campus corner and erased the "corner" part of it.

As far as building student housing on the south side of 11th?  No thanks.

[rdj]

If you think the new buildings at TU are "dreck" I'd love to hear what you think of these:







Are TU's new buildings what I would have built?  Not necessarily, but I think they are very nicely done and coherent to one another.  I'm a big fan of the changes  TU has made to their campus.  I believe 11th St is the new "midtown hot spot".

[Conan71]

If you think the new buildings at TU are "dreck" I'd love to hear what you think of these:







Are TU's new buildings what I would have built?  Not necessarily, but I think they are very nicely done and coherent to one another.  I'm a big fan of the changes  TU has made to their campus.  I believe 11th St is the new "midtown hot spot".

CVS: Does that ever say "In your face!" 

The S'pank: Reminds me of old Central High School with all the windows...well sort of

Wall Marts: Interesting camouflage for a big box.

Certainly TU could have done worse on design and execution.  My dreck comment had more to do with dispelling comparisons of 2010 manufactured stone and dryvit with classic 1800 and 1900 Ivy League construction.  I can be a troll at times.  Okay, well, most of the time.

[rdj]

I was just trying to provide a little perspective.  Are there varying degrees of dreck?

[Conan71]

I was just trying to provide a little perspective.  Are there varying degrees of dreck?

Yep:

None, slight, quite a bit, over-the-top, & Bumgarner. 

[AquaMan]

Other than Conan's last remark, am I sensing a lack of consensus? 6th street, 11th street north, 11th street south...