Ideas on funding/fixing public safety

[Conan71]

Good suggestions so far. I would like to add ... do a full, independent audit on the Public Works Department to make sure things are actually running smoothly. Right now, we have a lot of conjecture and assumptions that PW is inefficient; let's actually confirm these assumptions before taking any steps.

I thought they did an audit after the Martinez scandal and the report was supposed to be delivered around city election time.  I asked the question at my neighborhood forum with then Councilor Gomez and current Councilor Barnes and was told the results would be available soon.  No, I wasn't skunked on Marshall's that night, but I'm certain I was told there was a result of an audit of PW which was due soon.

[Conan71]

I don't think I ever saw my question answered on another topic where I posted it.  Does anyone know if any of the three large casinos in the Tulsa area collects any sales tax on food, liquor, or merchandise sales?

Are they required by any sort of public record to provide how much they take in gambling revenue?  I'm quite certain money lost gambling doesn't get spent at Reasor's (and therefore finally absorbed as sales tax), except as being diluted payroll of the people who work at the casino.

[Breadburner]

I don't think I ever saw my question answered on another topic where I posted it.  Does anyone know if any of the three large casinos in the Tulsa area collects any sales tax on food, liquor, or merchandise sales?

Are they required by any sort of public record to provide how much they take in gambling revenue?  I'm quite certain money lost gambling doesn't get spent at Reasor's (and therefore finally absorbed as sales tax), except as being diluted payroll of the people who work at the casino.

Bingo.....How much of a drain do you think these Casino's are on Tulsa's public safety departments.......

[Gaspar]

Why don’t we just slap a tax on new home sales? 

Since we are all getting thousands of dollars from our fellow tax payers to buy a new home, why don’t we divert say $1,000 of that to pay for our city shortcomings.  I certainly wouldn’t mind diverting money from a misguided program to fix Tulsa. 

Any objections or reasons why this would not work?

There’s $3 million right there.

[Conan71]

Bingo.....How much of a drain do you think these Casino's are on Tulsa's public safety departments.......

[shadows]

I have never seen such yapping about the actions of the voters that voted overwhelming to change the charter where the mayor would be the only authority to hire and fire within the police department.  The court suggested that it had not passed but if it passed it could be brought back before the court.  Now they are yapping about sovereign nations not contributing to us because we cannot handle our own money. Its again “don’t tax me tax that fellow behind the tree”.  We are 145 years in the time cycle and in complete disarray.   

[Breadburner]

Impact fees are bullshit.......How bout they learn to live within their respective budgets......

[TeeDub]

How about we offer the cops the same deal as they had the first time....

Except up the pay cut from 5.2% to 6%.


Other than that...   I don't see why we should pay more for less.    (How about they sell the old city hall and quit spending a quarter million dollars a year maintaining an empty building?    Or just move back into it and default on the ice cube?)

[Breadburner]

How bout we have an a public endowment just like the university's do,for the city of Tulsa.....That way people can dictate when and how much they donate.....It sounds simple but I can forsee many questions on how...when and to whom this money is distributed....But I really don't see how this can't work......

[FOTD]

The stormwater fee is an impact fee but PWD steals from that account to cover other deficits.

Developers should be paying for infrastructure like their adjacent roads, turn lanes etc., in which they impact traffic.

[Gaspar]

gaspar,  yes its called an impact fee and many progressive cities have them.  it should be progressively higher the further away from the city core.

No, I don't propose an impact fee. 

I would just like to see a system in place where the city is able to siphon a small percentage of money from stupid federal hand-outs to pay for the economic disaster that will follow.

When the “I’m sorry you lost your job, here’s a cookie” policies go away, so shall the fees.

If the federal government has no interest in taking measures to release the economy, than why shouldn’t local governments tap into the electricity from the cattle prods?

[shadows]

How about we offer the cops the same deal as they had the first time....

Except up the pay cut from 5.2% to 6%.


Other than that...   I don't see why we should pay more for less.    (How about they sell the old city hall and quit spending a quarter million dollars a year maintaining an empty building?    Or just move back into it and default on the ice cube?)

The best solution would be let BOK pigeon hole the city’s overdrawn checks until those better times become a current event.  I would assume that the unborn great grand children would be paying them on the revenue bonds used to buy the glass cube.  I could be wrong but heard a rumor that fistfights were happening between developers on who was first in line to buy the prime property the ole city hall sits on. 

[Gaspar]

The best solution would be let BOK pigeon hole the city’s overdrawn checks until those better times become a current event.  I would assume that the unborn great grand children would be paying them on the revenue bonds used to buy the glass cube.  I could be wrong but heard a rumor that fistfights were happening between developers on who was first in line to buy the prime property the ole city hall sits on. 

Never came across anyone that was interested in that spot.  Many looked at it, but when they figured in the demo costs, parking problems, proximity to the courthouse and library, the attractiveness faded.  I would think the spot would make a good class B/C office building for lawyers or other related businesses. 

Time to cut bait, don’t you think?

[Breadburner]

anyone who opposes impact fees is living in the past.  the tax structure we have now is an expansionist subsidy system that tulsa simply doesnt need anymore.  it favored rapid growth into the boonies acquired in the 60s.  it allows too much reallocation from critical needs to go to pet projects.  then we have the enterprise fund which is a cesspool of misuse by public works.  the existing taxes need to be retired and earmarked replacement taxes inacted.  you can call it a new homes tax or an impact fee but someone building at 121st and sheridan needs to pay the price for bringing infrastructure out there.

Thats a load of bullshit......Impact are nothing more than a way to bilk more money out of everyone.....Not to mention the fact they charge impact fees for existing projects that already have water and sewer to them......

[Gaspar]

Thats a load of bullshit......Impact are nothing more than a way to bilk more money out of everyone.....Not to mention the fact they charge impact fees for existing projects that already have water and sewer to them......

Had an opportunity to talk with a "big wig" from one of Tulsa's competitive suburb cities.  Brought up the idea of Impact Fees and learned a lot.  He said our surrounding cities would love to see us impose more impact fees on development.  He offered several examples of how that causes surrounding competitive markets to explode.  Bixby, BA, Jenks, Glenpool, Owasso, and others would all welcome the boom. 

He said that most of their Tulsa transplants and local developers cite better schools, lower taxes, and less red tape as reasons for investment in his community. 

So for the sake of Tulsa, I have to change my initial suggestion.  Even a temporary impact fee would most likely prove damaging.  He gave several examples such as Ft.Worth, Arlington, Denver, Houston and most of the large cities in California.  Fees in some areas add as much as $10,000 to the cost of a home and the result is massive sprawl and minimal increases in density.  He said they also create a "Ring of Decay" around the city in the highest impact zones.

Appartently they got off to a good start in the 70’s and 80’s but have since spiraled out of control, as is natural for government programs. He said he thinks about 70% of large cities have some form of impact fee and according to the NHBA they are on the rise nationwide. 

Developers and realtors in surrounding cities use the fees as strong marketing platforms.