Vision 2025...Part 2?

[Conan71]

Somebody (Conan?) help me here.  But as I remember it, back in the late 80's and early 90's (when the dam was working properly) Zink lake was always full.  The Tulsa rowing club crewed on it, etc. 

"The river" we are talking about is almost completely dependent upon (generally regular) releases from Keystone dam for water.  So obviously, if they turn that off then the flowing water disappears.  But that's the purpose of the dams.  To hold impounded water so that even with the flow cut off temporarily there is still "water in the river.  The River might not flow full time, but there would be water in the lakes all the time.

IIRC, until the dam started leaking, Zink Lake always had water in it. 

[AquaMan]

You can do a historical check at the corps website. They have depth gauge that hangs off the 66 bridge. It seems to me it was less frequent but not unusual to be dry in late summer. That is also peak demand time for southwest power. Meaning a nightly draw down.

[rdj]

Does the city own that complex?

Riverview Park Apts at the corner of 23rd & Jackson is owned by Tulsa Housing Authority.  The Brightwater Apts that are along Southwest Blvd are owned by a commercial LP and not THA.

The ROI on the purchase and remediation of the concrete plant doesn't make sense for an outlet mall in my opinion.  If public dollars are going to that it better be for a whole lot better than second rate clothing and accessories.

[PonderInc]

Hey look!  Water in the river!

(Just saved everyone $316 million.  Now can we invest in transit, parks, smart infill development, entrepreneurs...?)

[Townsend]

Hey look!  Water in the river!

(Just saved everyone $316 million.  Now can we invest in transit, parks, smart infill development, entrepreneurs...?)

No no no...wider streets, more parking, Gilcrease expressway expansion, brighter/more street lights...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Hey look!  Water in the river!

(Just saved everyone $316 million.  Now can we invest in transit, parks, smart infill development, entrepreneurs...?)

It will be gone in about two days....

[LandArchPoke]

No no no...wider streets, more parking, Gilcrease expressway expansion, brighter/more street lights...

Hit the nail on the head with that one. Let's give $100+ million so people can park their car next to "WATER IN THE RIVER!" That will surely boost those sales at the new outlet mall!



This go back to show that the development along the Arkansas will not be controlled in a way that promotes and ensures the highest and best use and exemplary design on land that fronts this natural asset. I'd rather put the money into streetcars, light rail, brt, public parks, our universities, etc. over the river because of that above. It's a complete joke.

The only damn I can support is Zink Lake. If the Jenks damn is on the upcoming vote I will be voting NO on this package.

[sgrizzle]

Hit the nail on the head with that one. Let's give $100+ million so people can park their car next to "WATER IN THE RIVER!" That will surely boost those sales at the new outlet mall!

This isn't on the bank of the river. That land is still undeveloped.

[SXSW]

This isn't on the bank of the river. That land is still undeveloped.

Where is this exactly then, is that the Creek Turnpike on the top? 

[swake]

Where is this exactly then, is that the Creek Turnpike on the top?  

This picture gives a better look at the area around the site. It's actually well off the river.


This map shows it even better
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0127664,-95.9620685,16z

[LandArchPoke]

I copied the site plan onto a few maps to give people a better idea. The orange areas are lots owned by the River District LLC that looks to not be bought by Simon. Essentially a small peice of land between the Outlets and land that is not develop-able and is proposed for public amenities (green)











This development means there's essentially no chance of any major interaction with the river here. Good thing we are going to vote to build a very expensive dam here, so that way the River District owners can sell those lots right next to the river to a few more Holiday Inn's just like on the other side of the Creek. Man! What a great return on our tax dollars!! Those Holiday Inn's would never be built anywhere if we don't put water in the river!

[cynical]

LandArchPoke, the added orange lines stopped well short of the river bank, which contradicts a good many other developments in place along the river. What is different about this property than the property the Riverwalk Crossing or KingsPoint Landing is located on. Both of those developments, located within Jenks, are built right up to the river bank as some of your pictures show. You totally reject that as a possibility here. Why?

[LandArchPoke]

LandArchPoke, the added orange lines stopped well short of the river bank, which contradicts a good many other developments in place along the river. What is different about this property than the property the Riverwalk Crossing or KingsPoint Landing is located on. Both of those developments, located within Jenks, are built right up to the river bank as some of your pictures show. You totally reject that as a possibility here. Why?

Mainly because their ownership ends where the parcel lines are. Any further east is the Arkansas River. It took the Creek Nation over 2 years with the Fed's to be able to modify and build on the same land, do you honestly think there is a developer (or these developers) would go through the same process? Other areas of the shoreline have ownership rights all the way up to the banks, which is what is the case where the Riverwalk and Aquarium went it. It is not the case here. Why? I do not know. I'm going from what the parcels maps from County records are showing.

Likely, that will become park land when any shoreline modifications are done with the dam. Which means this development is basically it when it comes to waterfront development here. We'll be lucky if we get a few suburban style hotels and restaurants to the east of this mall.

Not exactly a high ROI on that very expensive dam, they're asking us to pay for.

[swake]

This development means there's essentially no chance of any major interaction with the river here. Good thing we are going to vote to build a very expensive dam here, so that way the River District owners can sell those lots right next to the river to a few more Holiday Inn's just like on the other side of the Creek. Man! What a great return on our tax dollars!! Those Holiday Inn's would never be built anywhere if we don't put water in the river!

I doubt very seriously that's how Jenks will play this. Jenks will tie up the dam and riverbank improvements into the TIFF for the mall for whatever portion The Creek Nation isn’t going to pay for. Jenks isn't even going to vote, there's no need now.

The Creek Nation is going to pay too, the whole cost would be just a fraction of the nearly $400 million in construction they have going on along the banks of the river right now between Riverwalk’s Flying Tee and Margaritaville and they need that dam to tie all those properties together.

[rdj]

Don't forget Jenks Public Works is on the hook for Jenks Aquarium Authority debt once the Vision 2025 payments stop.  They have some fiscal decisions to make at Jenks City Hall.