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Kenosha
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« on: November 14, 2009, 04:38:37 pm » |
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I have some concerns, based on some things I am hearing, that PlanItTulsa is...not currently valued by the incoming politicians as it was during the Taylor admin, to put it mildly. We know that there are people out there who have a vested interest in keeping the system as it is...because they are fearful that a new Comp Plan or revised zoning code will disrupt their livelihood. I think those folks may have our new mayor's ear, right now. That being said, for politicians, planning is not always first nature. Even Kathy Taylor took a little while to realize that smart planning is good for business, and good for our city.
Perhaps the most unfortunate result of Kathy Taylor's decision not to run again is that this process that our city just went through might not be seen through. We had an unprecedented amount of public involvement to produce a new plan that not only frees up opportunity for new development, where it once was illegal, but also leaves untouched parts of the city that desire growth in its current form...It has the potential to actually reduce obstacles to development, while of course, protecting our most valuable assets.
For me...my hopes towards a new future for Tulsa, a vibrant place, with a diverse culture and a diverse economy, is hinged to this plan. It cannot 'go away'.
I would urge all of us who care about Tulsa, and who understand that this process is maybe the most important step Tulsa will take toward shaping its future, to stay alert....we may have to educate our newly elected, and remind them that our work is not to be tossed aside.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2009, 10:47:38 am » |
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I think this should be the primary mission of TN over the next year.
1. Educate our leadership about the importance of good urban planning and how, when well done, it can have a positive impact on; job growth, quality of life, city finances, crime reduction, competitiveness, be good for builders and developers, job attraction, health, streets, etc.
2. Build up a coalition of partners so that there are as many voices and groups of people pushing for this as possible. The mayor and council should be constantly, weekly, daily, reminded of this issue.
We could make a list of different organizations that we could gather together, and or educate and sway to our cause, to help be involved. Neighborhood groups, I am sure there are sympathetic developers and some we could encourage to be part of this, business people, church groups and leaders, teachers, environmentalists, police groups, TYpros, etc. Any group we can possibly talk to, educate, and get informed about the many positive impacts that having this new comprehensive plan can have on our city and how it can help them achieve their desires and goals. Anyone who comes in contact with the mayor and council needs to bring this topic up every single time.
We need to set up a "plan of attack". TN could spearhead the formation of a new group or effort, a coaliton tasked to get the Comprehensive Plan adopted. Perhaps have a general "educational roadshow" to take to different groups and individuals that could then be customized to each audience and their particular desires and concerns. Then ask them to support and become part of this new coalition, and have a list of ways that each group or individual can help and have a way so that they can be notified of opportunities that they can be a part of (city meetings, media events,...) etc.
Every time the Mayor or a city council member is out in public, (ribbon cutting ceremony, public meetings, etc. ) someone from that coalition needs to ask them about the comprehensive plan, perhaps have banners and picket signs lol. Whatever it takes to keep the issue in their and the public's eye and not get pushed aside and lost in the shuffle. Every issue that comes up, have a response that would show how adopting the comprehensive plan and good urban design could have a positive impact on it.
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« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 10:52:30 am by TheArtist »
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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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MichaelBates
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 04:53:18 pm » |
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I have some concerns, based on some things I am hearing, that PlanItTulsa is...not currently valued by the incoming politicians as it was during the Taylor admin, to put it mildly. We know that there are people out there who have a vested interest in keeping the system as it is...because they are fearful that a new Comp Plan or revised zoning code will disrupt their livelihood. I think those folks may have our new mayor's ear, right now. That being said, for politicians, planning is not always first nature. Even Kathy Taylor took a little while to realize that smart planning is good for business, and good for our city.
Perhaps the most unfortunate result of Kathy Taylor's decision not to run again is that this process that our city just went through might not be seen through. We had an unprecedented amount of public involvement to produce a new plan that not only frees up opportunity for new development, where it once was illegal, but also leaves untouched parts of the city that desire growth in its current form...It has the potential to actually reduce obstacles to development, while of course, protecting our most valuable assets.
For me...my hopes towards a new future for Tulsa, a vibrant place, with a diverse culture and a diverse economy, is hinged to this plan. It cannot 'go away'.
I would urge all of us who care about Tulsa, and who understand that this process is maybe the most important step Tulsa will take toward shaping its future, to stay alert....we may have to educate our newly elected, and remind them that our work is not to be tossed aside.
The mayoral result is a concern, but you should take some encouragement from the changes on the City Council. The three incoming former councilors all understand, first-hand, that the current system is broken. Look at the campaign contribution reports and you'll see that the forces with "a vested interest in keeping the system as it is" all backed the losing incumbents in those races. Turner and Mautino, in particular, are anxious to see new, quality development in their districts. Based on their past history, they should also be supportive of any plan that will focus and encourage development inside the city limits. Remember that the 2005 recall process was in part launched because of the Gang of Five's resistance to water deals to fuel development in the suburbs. For Barnes, the key issue will be how well a new plan protects stable neighborhoods while enabling new development. I think there will be more support on the council for PLANiTULSA than you may expect, because the vision aligns with their stated goals for their districts and the city as a whole, but there will be some work in helping the councilors and their constituents to see the connection. |
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MDepr2007
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2009, 07:58:58 pm » |
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We had an unprecedented amount of public involvement to produce a new plan Really  |
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AVERAGE JOE
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2009, 08:06:34 pm » |
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Perhaps the most unfortunate result of Kathy Taylor's decision not to run again is that this process that our city just went through might not be seen through. +1 If that happens, which is a very real possibility, we'll have spent over $1 million to falsely inflate the hopes of thousands of Tulsans. Especially North and East Tulsans who have engaged in this process in large numbers despite healthy skepticism that it was the same ol' business of asking for their input, then ignoring it. |
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TheArtist
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2009, 09:15:08 am » |
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Really Can you give me an example of something similar in our city in which there was as much public involvement and work? |
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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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MDepr2007
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 04:43:59 pm » |
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Can you give me an example of something similar in our city in which there was as much public involvement and work?
Has there been somthing similar besides 3rd penny forums or GO Bond forums? Did they give numbers for attendance to the neighborhood planning that was going on a few years ago? |
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PonderInc
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 11:27:17 pm » |
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PLANiTULSA:
1,000 people participated in a scientific public opinion survey.
Well over 1,000 people participated in three, 4-hour, city-wide planning workshops.
Hundreds more participated in 4-hour long small-area and transportation workshops.
Over 5,000 completed "Which Way Tulsa" surveys.
Every Tulsan has been invited to participate throughout the process.
Every Tulsan can still get involved by reading the vision draft and commenting online.
Every Tulsan will have the opportunity to read drafts of the plan, and offer comments and questions and recommendations online.
This has been an amazingly transparent and well-received public effort. I can think of nothing else of this scope and value undertaken by Tulsans in my memory.
The next challenge will be holding our elected officials accountable for seeing this process through, in good faith. And crashing down hard on them if they try to squirrel out of it.
The status quo is economically unsustainable. Tulsa will fail, if we fail to change the way we plan, zone, and develop our city.
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Rico
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2009, 07:24:38 pm » |
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PLANiTULSA:
1,000 people participated in a scientific public opinion survey.
Well over 1,000 people participated in three, 4-hour, city-wide planning workshops.
Hundreds more participated in 4-hour long small-area and transportation workshops.
Over 5,000 completed "Which Way Tulsa" surveys.
Every Tulsan has been invited to participate throughout the process.
Every Tulsan can still get involved by reading the vision draft and commenting online.
Every Tulsan will have the opportunity to read drafts of the plan, and offer comments and questions and recommendations online.
This has been an amazingly transparent and well-received public effort. I can think of nothing else of this scope and value undertaken by Tulsans in my memory.
The next challenge will be holding our elected officials accountable for seeing this process through, in good faith. And crashing down hard on them if they try to squirrel out of it.
The status quo is economically unsustainable. Tulsa will fail, if we fail to change the way we plan, zone, and develop our city.
] When you, and the Counselor of your choice..... "Get Ready to tell these big.. bad.. evil... money hungry.... tasteless...Builder Buffoons. where to "get off" this, public transportation ride to the future....., I most definitely do not want to be present. The notion, that telling these people what to build, how to build, where to build, etc, is the approach to take in making PlanItTulsa a reality is silly.. If that were the key to making distinctive development in Tulsa a reality....we would already be home free..! This Forum, acts as a Pulpit, for all of the Armchair Architects, Builders, Real Estate Attorney's, etc. that have figured out.... A. Bad building practices were done by some body else. B. Good Development... will happen when someone tells the builders that PlanItTulsa has it figured out, and will make it all come true once signed into code. People, as well as the developers, architects, real estate attorneys, etc are going to have to all be pulling in the same direction for "development" such as this to become a Reality. Sorry, "Every Tulsan" is not a licensed contractor, developer, architect, nor do they have the funds to make this reality.
p.s. have a look at the article I have linked ..... and compare it to the threads (on this forum) regarding the same building and the developers mentioned by Tulsa Business Journal. http://www.tulsabusiness.com/article.asp?aID=49958. |
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 08:12:48 pm by Rico »
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Kenosha
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2009, 10:59:10 pm » |
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] When you, and the Counselor of your choice..... "Get Ready to tell these big.. bad.. evil... money hungry.... tasteless...Builder Buffoons. where to "get off" this, public transportation ride to the future....., I most definitely do not want to be present. The notion, that telling these people what to build, how to build, where to build, etc, is the approach to take in making PlanItTulsa a reality is silly.. If that were the key to making distinctive development in Tulsa a reality....we would already be home free..! This Forum, acts as a Pulpit, for all of the Armchair Architects, Builders, Real Estate Attorney's, etc. that have figured out.... A. Bad building practices were done by some body else. B. Good Development... will happen when someone tells the builders that PlanItTulsa has it figured out, and will make it all come true once signed into code. People, as well as the developers, architects, real estate attorneys, etc are going to have to all be pulling in the same direction for "development" such as this to become a Reality. Sorry, "Every Tulsan" is not a licensed contractor, developer, architect, nor do they have the funds to make this reality.
p.s. have a look at the article I have linked ..... and compare it to the threads (on this forum) regarding the same building and the developers mentioned by Tulsa Business Journal. http://www.tulsabusiness.com/article.asp?aID=49958. Rico, I think you've missed the whole point. PlanItTulsa was/is a process...we, in fact, already have a document in place that is in fact more restrictive of development than what is being proposed in PlanItTulsa. The results of the PlanItTulsa process, which included developers, architects, contrators (not the armchair type...) open up opportunities for new types of development (mixed use, TOD. etc.), and incentives for the private community to invest and reinvest in tulsa. The public transportation you deride so much is one of them...a public investment which does more to encourage development than just about any other. Reduced parking requirements, reduced setback requirements, better practice in development services, predictability in the zoning code... No one here thinks that we can rebuild Tulsa with just a binder of paper and words...we all know it is going to take investment from the private side to do it...the message isn't glass half empty...it's glass half full. It's not, "you can't do that here", it's, "you can do that here". It's us saying we want more targeted urbanity, more pedestrian friendly development, and if you build it, you'll have tenants and customers, you won't be wasting your money. Now, how is this not developer friendly. P.S. Citing Bumngarner's "risky" venture, tucked between Utica Square and Cascia Hall is kind of funny. Just sayin'. |
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 11:01:26 pm by Kenosha »
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TheArtist
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2009, 08:17:53 am » |
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] When you, and the Counselor of your choice..... "Get Ready to tell these big.. bad.. evil... money hungry.... tasteless...Builder Buffoons. where to "get off" this, public transportation ride to the future....., I most definitely do not want to be present. The notion, that telling these people what to build, how to build, where to build, etc, is the approach to take in making PlanItTulsa a reality is silly.. If that were the key to making distinctive development in Tulsa a reality....we would already be home free..! This Forum, acts as a Pulpit, for all of the Armchair Architects, Builders, Real Estate Attorney's, etc. that have figured out.... A. Bad building practices were done by some body else. B. Good Development... will happen when someone tells the builders that PlanItTulsa has it figured out, and will make it all come true once signed into code. People, as well as the developers, architects, real estate attorneys, etc are going to have to all be pulling in the same direction for "development" such as this to become a Reality. Sorry, "Every Tulsan" is not a licensed contractor, developer, architect, nor do they have the funds to make this reality.
p.s. have a look at the article I have linked ..... and compare it to the threads (on this forum) regarding the same building and the developers mentioned by Tulsa Business Journal. http://www.tulsabusiness.com/article.asp?aID=49958. First off we are already "telling these people what to build, how to build, where to build, etc," The current set of rules were laid out in the old comprehensive plan. You just try to build a mixed use building in most parts of town and see what happens. You just try to build without the "required" number of parking spaces. Try to build an "accessory" dwelling like the garage apartments in historic mid-town. Try building over the height limit in most parts of town, You cant build housing here, cant build retail there, only low density here, high there, etc. etc. etc. etc. We already tell these people what to build, how to build, where to build, etc.... This is an opportunity to put in a new set of growth patterns. There is a reason we have roads where they are, the highway ringing the city and larger buildings at the main intersections on it, apartment complexes where they are, etc.,,, but they cant be mixed use; retail on ground floor, businesses and living above. Those things have to be separate and of a nature which doesn't allow for pedestrian/mass transit friendly growth. Btw, I have always liked Utica Place. But in most parts of the city he couldnt build that, it would be illegal. And indeed you still wouldnt want it in most parts. But there ARE more places where you would like to see that kind of mixed-use development and it would be illegal. The new comprehensive plan can change that by allowing more great developments like this in more areas. I also like his development on the corner of 21st and Utica.... but do not like the one on 15th and Utica lol. I guarantee you it wouldnt win any awards. |
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« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:27:55 am by TheArtist »
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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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Breadburner
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 07:54:14 am » |
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You guys mean like the great new pharmacy at 41st and Yale....Projects like that will be in jepordy with the new administration....O no's........
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Conan71
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 09:45:17 am » |
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You guys mean like the great new pharmacy at 41st and Yale....Projects like that will be in jepordy with the new administration....O no's........
You mean 41st & Harvard? |
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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Breadburner
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2009, 11:48:13 am » |
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You mean 41st & Harvard?
Thats it..... |
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Conan71
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2009, 12:21:04 pm » |
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Thats it.....
Who's been drinking already today?  |
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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