Old Collective,Ballers,Hardwood property

[orion]

Just noticed the other day that the For Lease sign is down..saw some activity over there as well..any idea's or rumors of anything?

[Conan71]

For $4500 a month, I can't believe anyone would rent it.  I've been wondering about the service station finally closing as well.  Is TU starting to spread to the south?  Just pure speculation on my part.

[Gold]

I haven't heard anything about TU buying up any additional property.

I sort of think down the road, they should buy up some land and tailor it towards a more uniform look, maybe a mini-Campus Corner.

$4,500 for that spot is obscene.

[titan43112]

$4500 a month ?!?!? Thats seems insane. I wonder if thats more than most of the bars and clubs downtown??

[cannon_fodder]

$4500 rent values that property at  $500,000+ (mortgage payment on $725,000 for 30 years at 7% is about $4500, so throw in some maintenance, some furnishings and add on some profit).  My guess is it is assessed around $250,000.  And the owner just can't figure out why businesses keep failing there.

[edit]typo[/edit]

[Conan71]

$4500 rent values that property at  $500,000+ (mortgage payment on $725,000 for 30 years at 7% is about 500)$.  My guess is it is assessed around $250,000.  And the owner just can't figure out why businesses keep failing there.

According to the owners of The Collective, the owner of the property is a total pompous donkey.  One of two things is going on, either he's trying to get lucky and get a business to survive in the building for a year with a demonstrated rent of $4500 per month so he can sell the property to some dumbass investor from out of state, or he thinks TU is going to hand him a check any day now for $500K and wants to use the high rent as a deterrent to signing a long-term lease.  Or a third possibility is the guy smokes a lot of crack.

[kylieosu]

According to the owners of The Collective, the owner of the property is a total pompous donkey.  One of two things is going on, either he's trying to get lucky and get a business to survive in the building for a year with a demonstrated rent of $4500 per month so he can sell the property to some dumbass investor from out of state, or he thinks TU is going to hand him a check any day now for $500K and wants to use the high rent as a deterrent to signing a long-term lease.  Or a third possibility is the guy smokes a lot of crack.

Sad, sad, sad.

[tulsascoot]

I would probably say crack. But, then again, I always go with crack.

[JoeMommaBlake]

A few things...

Abdul is the guy's name that owns the property. The space is roughly 3000 square feet and is fully furnished, including equipment. His attitude is that it's turn-key. It's understandable that a fully furnished and decorated space would be higher rent as it is sparing the business owner the typical costs of build-out, decoration, and furnishing of the space. The package isn't as bad as you might think as presented to an optimistic entrepreneur who happens to be staring 250K of build-out and equipment/furniture purchases in the face. Furthermore, it is across the street from a college campus, which is typically not a bad thing. His pitch is that you're paying for location, tables, chairs, booths, TVs, kitchen equipment, bar, and fully built out space.

That being said...

The location is hardly different than being on Cherry Street as it relates to TU students as they rarely walk that far...so a car trip is a car trip, so its proximity is hardly worth the higher rent. The furnishings inside the space are a mish mash of all of the "reclaimed property" the last several occupiers have left behind....most of them some sort of sports bar, so unless you have a plan for making the space look eclectic and pieced together, there's no real value in all the equipment. The Collective did a nice job of creating a comfortable coffee shop feel using sports bar leftovers, but were on the hook to maintain and repair every item in the building. The rent was part of it, but a very lop-sided lease was also hard to deal with for them.

The place used to work as The Hardwood. There was a time when it was jamming all the time, mostly with TU students. During TU football games, especially when they shut down 11th street, that bar was reportedly selling 20K+ on a Saturday afternoon (which is really good).

If it was that again....$4,500 wouldn't seem that bad. Sadly, the only type of place that's going to do that is a college themed bar, not a coffee/sandwich/bar....which sucks because the Collective was awesome.

I pay $4500 at Joe Momma's and that was for an empty shell of a space that I had to build out myself.

I just don't think it's going to return to its former glory as The Hardwood. The stigma surrounding the space is not good and a whole new generation of TU students have arrived. A restaurant/bar may be able to justify that rent, but only if they come in and do a make-over on the space and have a name people have heard of.

I also don't know that it's right to quote the owners of the collective regarding their opinion of the building's owner as they may be in the middle of legal dealings at this point. I'd strike the comments out of respect for them.

My hope is that Rusty gets the chance to give it another go in a different location in the future. I think the Collective was a great place and that their circumstances were not conducive to continued success. They did a smart thing by quitting before it got really bad. Someday maybe they'll return.

The best thing that could ever happen to that building is for Abdul to sell it...to me...for $250,000 to $300,000, not the $450,000 to $500,000 he thinks it's worth.

Hugs not drugs.

[SXSW]

The best thing that could ever happen to that building is for Abdul to sell it...to me...for $250,000 to $300,000, not the $450,000 to $500,000 he thinks it's worth.

Another Joe Momma's by TU perhaps?   

Maybe the Collective would work better in another location, maybe in the Pearl?  That area needs new businesses and it would still be close to TU and also downtown and Cherry Street.  One of the storefronts along 6th would be perfect IMO. 

[Nic Nac]

I agree.  With the 1st St. Music Hall guys supposedly going to the old Eclipse it would be great to see something open in the old diner space next door.  Still a rough area though - I would be nervous opening much outside of a venue there.

Does the owner of Eclipse (Rahal I think) own most of the 6th St. commercial property?  Someone needs to buy him out and get things rolling down there.

[SXSW]

I agree.  With the 1st St. Music Hall guys supposedly going to the old Eclipse it would be great to see something open in the old diner space next door.  Still a rough area though - I would be nervous opening much outside of a venue there.

Does the owner of Eclipse (Rahal I think) own most of the 6th St. commercial property?  Someone needs to buy him out and get things rolling down there.

What they really need is the city to invest in a streetscape project on 6th from Peoria to Utica (and eventually to Lewis and ultimately Delaware).  That right there could really be a catalyst for additional development.  That and the entire canal/drainage project the city has proposed for that area.

[JoeMommaBlake]

K Rahal does own a good deal of property in the Pearl, though I'm under the impression that he's in no hurry to sell any of it or to fix it up. He does care about the Pearl and has been accumulating property there for some time, I just wouldn't expect him to bend over backwards accommodating other peoples' dreams for the area he's been high on for years. His point continues to be that he's the one who had the vision first. Why should he sell his stuff now?

Shelby Navarro, however, owns a good amount of property in the area and has different intentions. He owns the property on the SE corner of 6th and Peoria for example and has high hopes. A few good tenants in there and all of a sudden, things really start looking up.

Something like The Collective would be perfect there and if I have my way...something like it will be there.

The Pearl has good bones and the development plans for the area make it very intriguing. The problem right now is that it's hard for most people to want to be the first ones in. The Eclipse is a great move because it's already worked there and it has a recognizable name. I have many fond memories of that place myself.

As for Joe Momma's on 11th... Don't hold your breath.

[Nic Nac]

Shelby Navarro, however, owns a good amount of property in the area and has different intentions. He owns the property on the SE corner of 6th and Peoria for example and has high hopes. A few good tenants in there and all of a sudden, things really start looking up.

Does Navarro have any specific plans for the SE corner of 6th and peoria?  Will he lease it out or put in something himself?  I've not noticed a for lease sign.

[Conan71]

Dave Strader has some interests in the Pearl District as well and has posted here before, maybe he will drop in and add his .02 on the area.