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November 24, 2017, 04:14:24 pm
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Author Topic: "The demographic inversion of the American city"  (Read 2483 times)
Nik
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« on: August 12, 2008, 11:21:54 am »

Good article. Focuses more on the larger cities in the US but sounds like something that would be beneficial for Tulsa as well.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=264510ca-2170-49cd-bad5-a0be122ac1a9
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rwarn17588
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2008, 11:44:32 am »

Good article. I noticed it mentioned St. Louis, and people have been moving into the downtown area for 10 years -- a big reversal of what happened for decades.

The Philtower and Mayo Hotel will be sitting pretty in the coming years.

Thing is, it will happen much more slowly in Tulsa because there aren't traffic problems here like there are in Atlanta, St. Louis, Chicago, etc., etc.
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we vs us
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2008, 01:58:02 pm »

There's a real aversion -- and mistrust -- of downtown living in Tulsa, in ways that I haven't seen in other cities.  It goes a lot farther than just indifference; there's active dislike.  My only explanation is that downtown functions as much as a symbol as a real place for most Tulsans.  A symbol of what, I'm not sure, but Kathy Taylor is a symbol of it, too, and so's Kanbar, and the TDA, etc. Maybe it symbolizes The Boondoggle, or The Oligarch, or the Oil Baron, or The Nanny State, or anything else where Mr. Everyday gets screwed by the Man.  I don't know, but downtown Tulsa is where everything sucks and can never be good again.

Obviously this forum is an exception -- and actually, I think one of the reasons this forum exists is for people who don't think downtown is so bad can get together and figure out why everybody else does. And obviously there're others in the city who don't feel that downtown = evil.  But I have to say, on a day to day basis with most Tulsans, downtown is just dumped on mercilessly.  

I also think this is probably why there're so few condos down there.  It's not that on paper the land isn't desirable, it's that in Tulsa's Mass Brain, no one even considers it as possible.  

PS.  I'm glad I moved here in time to see the BOK center open, and to see Driller Stadium + environs get the go ahead (almost!).  Those two things are really part of one big seismic shift back downtown, and a seismic shift that a lot of Tulsa metro doesn't see coming/doesn't want/can't comprehend.  I'm happy to be here for the shakeup, in other words, and think it couldn't happen to a nicer, more ossified city.
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PonderInc
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 03:33:41 pm »

I know a woman who's a realtor, who says that she receives calls every day from people who want to live downtown.  The only problem is that the lofts haven't been built/completed yet.

A lot of people want to live downtown: it's cool, it's unique, the architecture is stunning...and not everyone wants to spend their weekends mowing the lawn.
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carltonplace
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 04:22:17 pm »

I don't think its Tulsans that have the fear/hatred of downtown. Its suburbanites, and they LOATHE downtown Tulsa.

I've heard: "downtown is on life support, unplug it", "why does the mayor want to force downtown down our throats?", "why are they fixing streets in downtown when nobody goes there"

I don't care who you are if you look at DT from the Summit Club or the new arena or Mid Continent or from the lobby of the Mayo Hotel: you will not be able to hate downtown.
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we vs us
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 05:13:59 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

I know a woman who's a realtor, who says that she receives calls every day from people who want to live downtown.  The only problem is that the lofts haven't been built/completed yet.

A lot of people want to live downtown: it's cool, it's unique, the architecture is stunning...and not everyone wants to spend their weekends mowing the lawn.



I believe you, but . . . where're the condos?  Where're the gut rehabs, or the new starts, or anything resembling anything more than the Tribune Lofts (who've, by the way, started leasing themselves out because of soft demand), or those cool-but-lonely-looking condos that Michael Sanger is building (no offense, Michael, but they look kinda forlorn down there).  

I guess my point is, demand actually DOESN'T exist, because if it did, there'd be some mighty scrambling to satisfy it. And I don't see any scrambling whatsoever. I see a lot of meandering, and some toes dipped into the pool, but not a lot else.
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Rico
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 05:16:56 pm »

Originally posted by... we vs us.
quote:


I believe you, but . . . where're the condos?  Where're the gut rehabs, or the new starts, or anything resembling anything more than the Tribune Lofts (who've, by the way, started leasing themselves out because of soft demand), or those cool-but-lonely-looking condos that Michael Sanger is building (no offense, Michael, but they look kinda forlorn down there).  

I guess my point is, demand actually DOESN'T exist, because if it did, there'd be some mighty scrambling to satisfy it. And I don't see any scrambling whatsoever. I see a lot of meandering, and some toes dipped into the pool, but not a lot else.





You may want to check some of your info...

"Soft Demand"
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we vs us
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 06:48:16 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Rico

Originally posted by... we vs us.
quote:


I believe you, but . . . where're the condos?  Where're the gut rehabs, or the new starts, or anything resembling anything more than the Tribune Lofts (who've, by the way, started leasing themselves out because of soft demand), or those cool-but-lonely-looking condos that Michael Sanger is building (no offense, Michael, but they look kinda forlorn down there).  

I guess my point is, demand actually DOESN'T exist, because if it did, there'd be some mighty scrambling to satisfy it. And I don't see any scrambling whatsoever. I see a lot of meandering, and some toes dipped into the pool, but not a lot else.





You may want to check some of your info...

"Soft Demand"



Good article.  I'm quite happy to stand corrected.
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