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November 24, 2017, 01:05:21 am
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Author Topic: "Heart of Southdown"?  (Read 10429 times)
RecycleMichael
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2008, 07:23:05 am »

Your Mama?

Just kidding.

I guess a Wal-Mart.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2008, 07:43:32 am »

I think we tend put to much focus or give too much concern to the "suburbanite" and downtown. Would rather worry about the "urbanite" and downtown. Which then points to the obvious... What urbanites? More people living downtown will do much to make downtown a bustling and prosperous place. Urbanites are used to city parking, or simply not using a car at all.



Downtown should....

1.  Be a place to live, work, play and shop for the urbanites and their families.

2.  Be a central business district and possibly central education and medical hub.

3.  Be a central location for city wide and regional; activities, events, attractions, and government.

You need all 3 legs of that stool to be strong, to make a "sturdy" downtown.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 07:44:43 am by TheArtist » Logged

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Gaspar
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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2008, 07:43:40 am »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Your Mama?

Just kidding.

I guess a Wal-Mart.



No way!  Not even close!  

What do you and your wife, or you and your kids consider a nice evening out.  What activities does that include and where do you go?



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Gaspar
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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2008, 08:14:56 am »

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

I think we tend put to much focus or give too much concern to the "suburbanite" and downtown. Would rather worry about the "urbanite" and downtown. Which then points to the obvious... What urbanites? More people living downtown will do much to make downtown a bustling and prosperous place. Urbanites are used to city parking, or simply not using a car at all.



Downtown should....

1.  Be a place to live, work, play and shop for the urbanites and their families.

2.  Be a central business district and possibly central education and medical hub.

3.  Be a central location for city wide and regional; activities, events, attractions, and government.

You need all 3 legs of that stool to be strong, to make a "sturdy" downtown.





Dead on!  But you have to have catalysts to make those things happen.

1.  Be a place to live, work, play and shop for the urbanites and their families.

Retail follows population demographic, or destination demographic.


2.  Be a central business district and possibly central education and medical hub.

Business follows access demographic. Parking, delivery, short distance curb to door.  Same with Medical.


3.  Be a central location for city wide and regional; activities, events, attractions, and government.

Two separate concepts.  Government is already there.  Government is opposite in polarity to the other items mentioned.  Events and attractions are a positive influence on population density.  People like to live in popular areas.  As for government, no one really wants to live next to a court house, jail, or city maintenance facility unless they work there or otherwise participate in government.

What are the positive catalysts that influence the popularity of an area?  What common anchors do we see in tulsa that bring energy to otherwise bleak landscapes?

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2008, 08:37:56 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
What do you and your wife, or you and your kids consider a nice evening out.  What activities does that include and where do you go?


A nice evening out...

Something we can all do together and everyone still has a good time. Something that doesn't cost too much. Somewhere we would see other people we know...

I'm still guessing Wal-Mart.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2008, 08:39:52 am »

Ok, here's the deal.  The arena and the ball park are part of what can energize the downtown.  They will create a good tax revenue and stimulate some restaurant and hospitality, but there is a far simpler form of LBE (Location Based Entertainment).

When you analyze LBE modules you look at the same thing a good restaurant owner or retailer looks at.  "How many people can I get to move through my doors, and how much product can I get them to buy?"

If you treat downtown as a simple retail business (a department store), what draw(s) can you create that will bring people all the way into your store on a recurring basis and cause them to spend money in the surrounding departments?  How can you make them regular customers?  What will cause them to return frequently to the same venue for the same product?

What is the first thing that a Shopping Mall Developer does?
What is the secret weapon of the smart retail developer?

« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 08:43:20 am by Gaspar » Logged

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jackbristow
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2008, 10:24:22 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Ok, here's the deal.  The arena and the ball park are part of what can energize the downtown.  They will create a good tax revenue and stimulate some restaurant and hospitality, but there is a far simpler form of LBE (Location Based Entertainment).

When you analyze LBE modules you look at the same thing a good restaurant owner or retailer looks at.  "How many people can I get to move through my doors, and how much product can I get them to buy?"

If you treat downtown as a simple retail business (a department store), what draw(s) can you create that will bring people all the way into your store on a recurring basis and cause them to spend money in the surrounding departments?  How can you make them regular customers?  What will cause them to return frequently to the same venue for the same product?

What is the first thing that a Shopping Mall Developer does?
What is the secret weapon of the smart retail developer?





Entertainment?  Ice Cream?
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BKDotCom
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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2008, 11:25:26 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
What is the first thing that a Shopping Mall Developer does?
What is the secret weapon of the smart retail developer?
¿Shoe Carnival & Kohls?
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 11:34:58 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
What is the secret weapon of the smart retail developer?


Shopping bags with their name on them?
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2008, 11:43:10 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar


What is the secret weapon of the smart retail developer?



Restrooms.  Clean, heated and airconditioned restrooms.  No pay toilets please.
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« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2008, 11:43:19 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar



What is the first thing that a Shopping Mall Developer does?
What is the secret weapon of the smart retail developer?





Look for what will create the post urban sprawl?
Make sure all roads within a mile radius are in need of expansion?
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2008, 12:05:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
What is the first thing that a Shopping Mall Developer does?



Pay off the concrete mafia?
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Gaspar
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« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2008, 12:21:15 pm »

Enough toying around.

A cinema complex is the essential element and catalyst for massive development at a minimal expense.

The standard 20 screen super cinema will rotate huge amounts of traffic on a daily basis, and typically this type of LBE stimulates restaurant and retail growth.  

A concept design for a super cinema with covered parking below could generate traffic and economic growth for a relatively inexpensive price.  

The city owns parcels of land downtown that they are trying to liquidate.  If they were to invite developers with the appropriate experience it would get the ball rolling.

The initial demographic would be a "destination demographic" that would stimulate restaurant traffic and build retail.

This is not a new idea.  It's an old formula that is put to use every day by developers all over the country.  A theater is considered a "market" anchor because it has the ability to simulate more than one form of economic development.

When a theater goes in (Dickenson on 101st for example) within a very short period of time the total demographic of the area changes and businesses sprout up around it.  The growth ring starts with restaurant and retail expands to office and service, and finishes with residential.

It's very hard to Poo Poo the super cinema as an anchor for economic development though I'm sure some will.  There are far to many case studies for success.  The obstacle is the parking.  We have discussed concepts for "underground" or raised ground dedicated parking before.  This is the element that the city would need to provide development assistance on.  I think that's a relatively small obstacle for an urban area hungry for growth.

+tax revenue
+retail growth
+after hours traffic
+restaurant growth (dinner and a movie always!)

When compared with an arena or ball field that move populations into the area once or twice a week (not that I have anything against those forms of LBE), the anchor cinema will start to actually shift population growth every day.

The actual demographic is extremely diverse too with wide age and income bands.

Lets look at the math (gross numbers):
If you have a 20 screen cinema (80 seats each) and you only fill half capacity for only 4 show-times, you generate approximately $28,000 a day.

If only half of those patrons go for a meal or drinks you generate an additional $30,000 a day.

That's a conservative $21,000,000 a year in taxable revenue, not taking into account any retail sales or any residential development/sales.  A more robust attendance estimate would be in the $50,000,000 range.  If you were to throw in some retail you could be in the $100 million dollar range very quickly.

You don't have to drive very far in Tulsa and the surrounding area to see this formula at work.  The only obstacle is the parking.



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Gaspar
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« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2008, 12:24:33 pm »

You can almost double that number if they buy a bag of popcorn! [}:)]
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2008, 12:56:07 pm »

I'm ready for a downtown theater. Especially if it's one like cinemark with some regular food.

Now THAT is a good lunch break.
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