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Author Topic: Mass Shootings the last six months  (Read 146813 times)
Townsend
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« Reply #420 on: January 30, 2013, 10:57:14 am »

Which, of course, don't do anything to fix the actual "problem".

Another thing in which we agree.
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Townsend
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« Reply #421 on: January 30, 2013, 01:16:46 pm »

New York's Weapon Ban Could Be Economic Tool for Oklahoma

http://kwgs.com/post/new-yorks-weapon-ban-could-be-economic-tool-oklahoma

Quote
In light of a New York ban on assault rifles, state Rep. Dan Kirby said today he would like to invite Remington to consider Oklahoma as a gun manufacturing location.

“I was just reading about the backlash from an Ilion, N.Y., Remington gun factory and I wanted to get the word out that many Oklahoma lawmakers would welcome gun manufacturing jobs in our state and would like an opportunity to talk to Remington about our incentive programs and friendly business climate.”
 
Kirby said Oklahoma has a deeply embedded gun culture and will unlikely ever consider any type of ban on guns.

“Support for Second Amendment rights is bipartisan and overwhelming,” said Kirby. “Really, I think most Oklahomans would be proud to welcome gun manufacturers to the state.”

Kirby noted that Oklahoma has several manufacturing incentives available to companies that bring jobs to the state such as the Oklahoma Quality Jobs Act and a 5-year property tax exemption for manufacturers. State lawmakers have enacted lawsuit reform in past year and are working this year to reform the state workers’ compensation system.

“You can’t get much more business-friendly,” said Kirby.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #422 on: January 30, 2013, 01:41:40 pm »

But I don't want you to have one. That is all the answer I need.

If you want a rifle that propels grenades, you don't get one. That has been determined to be a reasonable restriction on weapon ownership. You can say you want one all you want, but that doesn't matter.

I have a right to life and liberty. Your wants don't trump my rights.

As long as I don't do anything to intrude on your rights, you have no right to intrude on mine.  So, by definition, it is NONE of your business what I have or don't have.

If the law allows me to go through the procedure that gets me a rifle propelled grenade, it is NONE of your business, as long as I don't shoot it at your house.

And nothing I do with a 30 round magazine or a rifle propelled grenade or an F-16 intrudes not a whit on your right to life or liberty.  Whereas YOUR proposal does exactly that - intrudes on MY liberty!




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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #423 on: January 30, 2013, 01:45:43 pm »


I'm not a fan of suddenly becoming a criminal if a weapon I own is deemed illegal.  I would not turn my property in simply because someone decided I shouldn't have it.

Would you let a law enforcement officer in your house to make sure your guns are all okay for you to own?  I would not.


You are apparently too young to remember Waco, TX or Ruby Ridge....
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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Townsend
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« Reply #424 on: January 30, 2013, 01:49:47 pm »

You are apparently too young to remember Waco, TX or Ruby Ridge....


No, I'm there.  Different circumstances. 
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DolfanBob
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« Reply #425 on: January 31, 2013, 02:58:52 pm »

And another one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271494/Student-14-shot-head-Atlanta-middle-school-shooting.html
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Changing opinions one mistake at a time.
nathanm
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« Reply #426 on: January 31, 2013, 03:51:03 pm »

And nothing I do with a 30 round magazine or a rifle propelled grenade or an F-16 intrudes not a whit on your right to life or liberty.  Whereas YOUR proposal does exactly that - intrudes on MY liberty!

Ok, let's pretend that I agree that you have an inalienable right to own a rifle with an attached grenade launcher. How about you get some liability insurance on that so that when you accidentally blow someone's arm off with it they're not stuck with the bill? You can't legitimately push the costs of your own choices onto other people, but that's precisely what the gun lobby insists we allow. Any restriction is a bridge too far in their view.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #427 on: January 31, 2013, 07:27:05 pm »

Ok, let's pretend that I agree that you have an inalienable right to own a rifle with an attached grenade launcher. How about you get some liability insurance on that so that when you accidentally blow someone's arm off with it they're not stuck with the bill? You can't legitimately push the costs of your own choices onto other people, but that's precisely what the gun lobby insists we allow. Any restriction is a bridge too far in their view.

Oh, puullllleeeezzzzeeeee!!  Come on... you are much better and sharper than that!  That liability thing pretty well applies to anyone with any sense of self preservation in this world today.  And since I don't have a grenade launcher - yet - it won't really matter just now anyway.  Hopefully soon, I can change that....

I also keep auto insurance.  And health insurance, so I can help subsidize all those people who aren't required to have it yet.

As you can't push the costs of your own choices on to other people....



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
AquaMan
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« Reply #428 on: January 31, 2013, 07:28:34 pm »

Everyone knows criminals don't buy there guns at the gun show or register them. They steal them from people who do. So, go ahead and get that grenade launching rifle. It will soon be on the street.
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onward...through the fog
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #429 on: January 31, 2013, 07:34:57 pm »

Everyone knows criminals don't buy there guns at the gun show or register them. They steal them from people who do. So, go ahead and get that grenade launching rifle. It will soon be on the street.

Probably not, given past experience, but anything can happen at any time.

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
RecycleMichael
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« Reply #430 on: January 31, 2013, 10:42:55 pm »

I hope that heironymouspasparagus is responsible with his guns, but many, many gun-owners are not. It is not irresponsible to close loopholes at registration of guns. We all know that a large percentage of guns are just traded, handed around, stolen, and that many of these guns are used during a crime.

You can scream your want to have no paperwork on your guns and no restrictions on what types of magazines you want, but because of other people behaving badly, something has to be done.

Your demands are unreasonable, and reasonable minds will settle this debate.   
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #431 on: February 01, 2013, 07:48:12 am »

I hope that heironymouspasparagus is responsible with his guns, but many, many gun-owners are not. It is not irresponsible to close loopholes at registration of guns. We all know that a large percentage of guns are just traded, handed around, stolen, and that many of these guns are used during a crime.

You can scream your want to have no paperwork on your guns and no restrictions on what types of magazines you want, but because of other people behaving badly, something has to be done.

Your demands are unreasonable, and reasonable minds will settle this debate.   

Flintlocks for everyone.
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patric
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These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #432 on: February 01, 2013, 10:45:04 am »

Flintlocks for everyone.

Then black powder becomes "bomb-making materials" and you become a terrorist for possessing something you legally purchased over the counter at Dongs.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
AquaMan
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Just Cruz'n


« Reply #433 on: February 01, 2013, 01:19:07 pm »

Can't we at least pass legislation to change the name of Dong's?
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onward...through the fog
Gaspar
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« Reply #434 on: February 01, 2013, 01:28:05 pm »

I hope that heironymouspasparagus is responsible with his guns, but many, many gun-owners are not. It is not irresponsible to close loopholes at registration of guns. We all know that a large percentage of guns are just traded, handed around, stolen, and that many of these guns are used during a crime.

You can scream your want to have no paperwork on your guns and no restrictions on what types of magazines you want, but because of other people behaving badly, something has to be done.

Your demands are unreasonable, and reasonable minds will settle this debate.   

First of all, I don't think anyone is screaming to have "no paperwork."  In fact I think we all agree, registration is both reasonable and necessary to keep guns out of the hands of those for whom it is illegal to purchase firearms.

Second, we keep going down this road on restrictions to magazines, or handles, or flash suppressors, or plastic grips.  None of which have anything at all to do with crazy people getting guns and shooting kids.  So to say that "reasonable minds will settle this debate" is actually quite true.  Reason is necessary to look at these tragedies as well as other current and historical statistics from a logical standpoint and deduct the cause, and therefore remedies for such gun violence.

President Obama is far from stupid.  He had an opportunity, with the stroke of a pen to sign an executive order reinstating the assault weapons ban, and implementing new restrictions of magazines in all weapons.  Many, both Republican and Democrats thought that was exactly what he planned to do.  However, he knew that the facts behind the violence could not support such action even if the emotion did.  So he provided 23 orders designed to follow a far more logical path, and address the very real issues of mental health.  He chose, perhaps for the first time in his career, to impact the problem rather than play politics.

Because the president is not stupid, he also knows that this is as far as this debate will go.  The senate will not address it, because to do so would mean the loss of at least 6 Democrats, and shift the balance of power to the Republicans.

So, the president acted on three logical prepositions.
1. Mental illness combined with already illegal access to weapons resulted in these deaths.  Basically, an enforcement issue.
2. Executive or legislative action directed at gun ownership would have had no effect in preventing the events at Sandy Hook or Auora.
3. Allowing Congress to address the issue is the most logical path of action to preserve his power structure in the senate.

The public debate will certainly continue, but any legislative action will be symbolic at most.
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When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.
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