Someone Trying to Make a Point?

[waterboy]

The river flow for the past few weeks has been negligible. I know the Keystone Lake is well under normal levels but this is unusual for this time of year. Currently the discharge is -0- and the depth at the 11th street bridge is less than a foot. Its stressful on the fish and wildlife. Many people have been told that the Corps had agreed to keep enough of a stream running to keep the fish species alive. Apparently that is not accurate. Lots of people at Oktoberfest and the Channels is shifting into gear. Maybe they're saving up water for the Centennial in Mid November which has some activities on and near the river. Hmmm.

From the Corps of Engineers website:
Discharge on this date from the Keystone Dam for previous 41 years of measure.

Current discharge: -0-
Previous Minimum: 195cfs in 1981
20% of all discharges were over 1160cfs
The Median discharge was 2540cfs
The Mean discharge was 7460cfs
80% of all discharges were over 8580cfs
The Maximum discharge on this date was 75,000cfs in 1984

[pmcalk]

I was wondering that myself.  Rarely, do you see islands in the river between the pedestrian bridge and 21st, but today it looked almost as empty as past the low water damn.

If someone is trying to make a point, though, I am not sure what that would be.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

I was wondering that myself.  Rarely, do you see islands in the river between the pedestrian bridge and 21st, but today it looked almost as empty as past the low water damn.

If someone is trying to make a point, though, I am not sure what that would be.

How better to spur interest in a dam that would create a lush group of islands than to contrast it with what it looks like now? Kind of like "before and after" views. Maybe there is another good reason but never have I seen it this low, this long. And yet no one in the press says anything, no one at the corps sends a press release. I am beginning to think the corps simply does not care period.

If they are holding water for the Centennial celebrations that implies that they can and will manipulate the levels for commercial reasons other than hydro-electric generation which is unthinkable for them.

[pmcalk]

True, but they could just as well be making a different point--spend all the money you want on damns and islands and whatnot.  Ultimately, we will decide whether you have water or not (insert evil laugh--you know, don't mess with us, we're the Corps).  Personally, my first thought was how ugly those islands might look with no water in the river, and if a low water damn doesn't maintain enough water, how will any damn do so?

Really, I know no one working for the Corps, and I don't know their motivation.  They could be great guys.

[waterboy]

They're just guys (and dolls) doing what the Army tells them. Some water will always be in the channels theoretically because the Corps pays for its operation by selling Hydro-electric power thru SW Power. And the Channels dam is so tall it can hold water longer. Course it will never be built.

Maybe its repairs on equipment or work around a pipeline. Seems like there is a story there. Someone will clue us in eventually.

[RecycleMichael]

Of course the Corps of Engineers can manipulate the flows out of Keystone lake and into the Arkansas River. They have many different factors to help make their decisions. They have to consider power needs, flood control capacity, recreation uses of both the lake and the river, even consideration for spawning seasons for fish.

I think they decide things like, well, engineers.

The late JD Metcalfe used to say "it is hard to be politically correct, engineeringly sound and perfectly timed".

The Corps always keeps the levels full in the river during late April and early May during striper spawning season. The Riverparks bans fishing during those periods because the fish all congregate near the pedestrian bridge.

[waterboy]

I know they can manipulate the water levels. But not for commercial reasons or recreational reasons like downstream rowing regattas, sailboating, celebrations etc. That is not something they consider. Was always told they would keep enough in the river to keep the fish alive but was recently told that even that is of no concern except in the spring when they can afford to let water out anyway. -0 - flow is quite strange for such a long period.

[TheArtist]

Could it be that upstream they have not had much rain and thus the lake level doesnt need to be lowered or that the lake itself already is low?  Even though we have had some rain I think we are still low and the counties to the west of us have had burn bans in effect for quite a while because of lack of rain.  Just a guess and too worn out to look for info lol.

[Ibanez]

Not sure if it still the case....but back in early August a buddy of mine who is an underwater welder told me he was getting ready to do some work out at Keystone Dam.

Take it for what's it is worth....but seems that could have something to do with this.

[shadows]

The flood of ‘84 on the river was beyond control of the Corps.   The original plan called for the low water dams to be constructed where they could be let down to open up the water flow.  Of course we are of the dry seasons at present and are planning a death trap for many with the next wet cycle.   The river drains a large area in the central part of the country and at present,I believe the capacity of the Keystone is not much over one and one half  inches of rainfall over the drainage basin.    In the event a tropical storm moves up the basin again, the river if developed as designed ,  will become Tulsa 911 as the water creates its own bypass.   Much of the basin lies beyond .the city powers to create an ordinance prohibiting a rainfall that the Keystone can control. Check the past floods on the river so in the future you can plan to store the overflow as the town becomes the detention pond.    

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

The flood of ‘84 on the river was beyond control of the Corps.   The original plan called for the low water dams to be constructed where they could be let down to open up the water flow.  Of course we are of the dry seasons at present and are planning a death trap for many with the next wet cycle.   The river drains a large area in the central part of the country and at present,I believe the capacity of the Keystone is not much over one and one half  inches of rainfall over the drainage basin.    In the event a tropical storm moves up the basin again, the river if developed as designed ,  will become Tulsa 911 as the water creates its own bypass.   Much of the basin lies beyond .the city powers to create an ordinance prohibiting a rainfall that the Keystone can control. Check the past floods on the river so in the future you can plan to store the overflow as the town becomes the detention pond.    

Yeah, so many tropical storms hit the Arkansas River watershed.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

The flood of ‘84 on the river was beyond control of the Corps.   The original plan called for the low water dams to be constructed where they could be let down to open up the water flow.  Of course we are of the dry seasons at present and are planning a death trap for many with the next wet cycle.   The river drains a large area in the central part of the country and at present,I believe the capacity of the Keystone is not much over one and one half  inches of rainfall over the drainage basin.    In the event a tropical storm moves up the basin again, the river if developed as designed ,  will become Tulsa 911 as the water creates its own bypass.   Much of the basin lies beyond .the city powers to create an ordinance prohibiting a rainfall that the Keystone can control. Check the past floods on the river so in the future you can plan to store the overflow as the town becomes the detention pond.    

Thanks for the doomsday forecast! The dams cannot open automatically but they do have gates that are manually opened. Not enough of them though. Good to see you back Shadows.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:

Yeah, so many tropical storms hit the Arkansas River watershed.

Well, a couple in my lifetime.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by shadows

The flood of ‘84 on the river was beyond control of the Corps.   The original plan called for the low water dams to be constructed where they could be let down to open up the water flow.  Of course we are of the dry seasons at present and are planning a death trap for many with the next wet cycle.   The river drains a large area in the central part of the country and at present,I believe the capacity of the Keystone is not much over one and one half  inches of rainfall over the drainage basin.    In the event a tropical storm moves up the basin again, the river if developed as designed ,  will become Tulsa 911 as the water creates its own bypass.   Much of the basin lies beyond .the city powers to create an ordinance prohibiting a rainfall that the Keystone can control. Check the past floods on the river so in the future you can plan to store the overflow as the town becomes the detention pond.    

Yeah, so many tropical storms hit the Arkansas River watershed.

I think we know the watershed isn't coastal.  But tropical systems can bring a lot of moisture this way, or in a worst case scenario, randomly stall in the region.  Might not happen for 50 years, or it might happen next week.

[shadows]

I was in the offices of the weather bureau in  â€˜84 at which time their radar showed the mass storm was bearing down on the watershed just west of town.   Its radar screens were covered with red and they were preparing to advise the Corps to open the gates to maximum channel capacity of which the Corps waited 24 hours before opening the gates and at this time the in flow as greater than they could control.  The floodwaters washed the banks down stream from the dam.  

True we have the dry cycles along with the wet cycles and we cannot predict the path a tropical storm will travel after landfall but nature carved the river and it has moved over the years.

I assume there are many venturous people that love to live in danger and in the present plan this will create a place for them.  All buildings on the islands should require life jackets be available to every tenant.

Tulsa could annex a plot on the moon for future expansion when travel is available..