What does Tulsa need?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Next St. Patty's Day the Irish Bar on 15th Street should get a permit from the city to rope off its stretch of 15th and host a free St. Patty's Day celebration right there in front of the bar on the street.  It would make a great new tradition.  I'm not sure how the liquor laws work but the police should turn a blind eye to drinking in that area that night.  The Irish Bar and a few nearby non Irish bars should sell a lot of beer in honor of being young and having a blast in venerable Old Tulsa.

They don't close the street there but they do rope off the sidewalk and parking lot and have a big deal there for St patty's.

Downtown the city does close some streets around Arnie's and McNellie's in the Blue Dome area. It's really packed down there every year.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Next St. Patty's Day the Irish Bar on 15th Street should get a permit from the city to rope off its stretch of 15th and host a free St. Patty's Day celebration right there in front of the bar on the street.  It would make a great new tradition.  I'm not sure how the liquor laws work but the police should turn a blind eye to drinking in that area that night.  The Irish Bar and a few nearby non Irish bars should sell a lot of beer in honor of being young and having a blast in venerable Old Tulsa.

They don't close the street there but they do rope off the sidewalk and parking lot and have a big deal there for St patty's.

Downtown the city does close some streets around Arnie's and McNellie's in the Blue Dome area. It's really packed down there every year.

Good!  Spread the word.  There is some fun for the young folks in Tulsa.  It was on this forum that I learned that the majority ethnic group in Tulsa is Irish.  

[waterboy]

Here's something Tulsa needs. Something to offset the horrendous letters to the editor in our daily dissapointment. It gives a skewed vision of Tulsans. At least I hope its skewed. This past Sunday seemed pretty representative.

The impression left is that Tulsan's:
  -Aren't buying this Global Warming crap
  -Utilize Bible citations as key parts of their arguments
  -Don't understand basic operations and responsibilities of their government
  -Don't bother to read details of plans described for them in previous issues
  -Are politically polarized to a greater extent than the rest of the nation
  -Are outraged by petty inconveniences others consider to be part of life

Is this just my observation? Is it nationwide? We continually focus on what divides us and seem too lazy or fearful to effect change based on what we all want.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

-Are outraged by petty inconveniences others consider to be part of life

Man, did you hit on something there. I think you stated it perfectly.

Check out Mike Brown's editorial from yesterday's Sunday paper. In general it was a fine editorial and I agree with the big picture, but some of the things he said are telling. He stated that Brookside was a great district, but that parking is a "nightmare". OMG, are you kidding, Mike? When I have friends in from other cities and we go to Brookside for a night out they always comment on how easy it is to park there! They say that about every single place we visit -- Cherry Street, Blue Dome, Brady, 18th & Boston, everywhere. A lot of them even say it's a shame there's so much parking -- take some of the parking away and there'd be more room to build stuff to do.

One time I went downtown with out-of-town friends and another Tulsan was driving, and he apologized for getting such a bad parking space -- barely more than a block away on the same street the bar was located!! The out-of-towners looked at him like he was nuts, one of them even said "Um, isn't that the place right there?" and pointed a block up the street. It's like, "Dude, we can SEE the place from where we parked, and you think this is a bad deal? You wouldn't last 10 minutes in the big city where I live."

My interpretation of it is that we have this incredible small-town mentality. Like, if I have to walk more than 100 feet from my car to the door, it's the worst thing that happened all day. You know what, in a city -- an actual CITY -- those things happen. They're so common as to be an afterthought. OF COURSE you might have to park 3-4 blocks away from where you want to go, and that's if you're lucky! But you know, if a place is popular, there won't be parking right in front of the door. To get a parking space right outside the door, that would mean NOBODY GOES THERE. We seem to be completely unwilling to accept that reality here. You mention that to people and they say "Well that happens in Dallas or Chicago, but that's not supposed to happen HERE, this is Tulsa..." We hold ourselves back with that attitude.

Tulsa is a city. We're not a small town. If you don't want to live in a city, go live in Okmulgee or Claremore or Muskogee. Everybody here wants all the benefits and opportunities of a big city and none of the inconveniences that come with it. Get with reality already.

/rant

[Conan71]

I've heard Colorado invoked several times in this thread.  Places like Denver or Colorado Springs, San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, Portland, New York, Miami, etc. have a natural visual draw to them in the mind of college graduates.  A lot of young people have idealized images of living within an hour's drive of a coast or mountain recreation, or think that a city with 1 million-plus population (Dallas, Atlanta, St. Louis, Kansas City, Cincinatti, Chicago, etc.) will have infinitely more activities available than our "small town".

I used to go to the front range of Colorado on business quite a bit.  At the time, there were many high-tech companies expanding to the front range.  Any number of people within these companies explained that it was easy to attract some of the best college grads to the mountains.  They had a pretty temperate climate (45 degrees with their lack of humidity is very comfortable), the cost of living at the time was cheaper than Silicon Valley, the views are spectacular, and recreational opportunities are endless.

Tulsa is somewhat of an oasis out on the prairie and that's not so attractive to college grads who didn't grow up here and it's not even that much more attractive to kids that did.  One of my daughters wants to go to USC because she thinks California would be cooler than Tulsa.  The other has harbored ideas of going to school in New York.

Growing up, all I could think about was getting out of Tulsa.  It had nothing to do with Tulsa not having islands on the river, no baseball park downtown, nor being the home of ORU and Rhema.  I just figured there was something that would be infinitely more exciting about a big city, or I'd like to live in or near mountains or along or near a beach.

Now that I'm older and more practical, I appreciate that Tulsa has far less traffic problems than places like Dallas, Houston, Denver, KC, St. Louis, etc., ad nauseum.   I like that you can get to just about anywhere from anywhere in Tulsa in 20 minutes or less.  I think we have really good arts and entertainment for a city our size.  It doesn't bother me that we don't have first tier professional sports teams.

We also have a great *variety* of entertainment.  This last Friday night my wife and I went to the "Evening of Wine & Roses" at the Garden Center.  The Friday before we went to the fair.  (Interestingly, we didn't see any "fair people" at the Garden Center[]).  This coming Friday, we will be going to a small stage production.  We frequently go out to hear live music.  Just about every Saturday and Sunday finds us on our sailboat on an area lake.  IMO- I think the Tulsa area has plenty going for it.

I guess my point is, for a city our size, we have a lot to offer.  However, we don't have a couple of the natural resources that a lot of young people idealize: mountains and ocean.  We also don't have a large enough population base to attract a major league sports team.  

Perspective in young people seems to get altered by large population numbers and natural resources.  That's why I always get a good laugh when prospective developers talk about islands in rivers and baseball parks downtown attracting young professionals and retaining them in Tulsa.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

-Are outraged by petty inconveniences others consider to be part of life

Man, did you hit on something there. I think you stated it perfectly.

Check out Mike Brown's editorial from yesterday's Sunday paper. In general it was a fine editorial and I agree with the big picture, but some of the things he said are telling. He stated that Brookside was a great district, but that parking is a "nightmare". OMG, are you kidding, Mike? When I have friends in from other cities and we go to Brookside for a night out they always comment on how easy it is to park there! They say that about every single place we visit -- Cherry Street, Blue Dome, Brady, 18th & Boston, everywhere. A lot of them even say it's a shame there's so much parking -- take some of the parking away and there'd be more room to build stuff to do.

One time I went downtown with out-of-town friends and another Tulsan was driving, and he apologized for getting such a bad parking space -- barely more than a block away on the same street the bar was located!! The out-of-towners looked at him like he was nuts, one of them even said "Um, isn't that the place right there?" and pointed a block up the street. It's like, "Dude, we can SEE the place from where we parked, and you think this is a bad deal? You wouldn't last 10 minutes in the big city where I live."

My interpretation of it is that we have this incredible small-town mentality. Like, if I have to walk more than 100 feet from my car to the door, it's the worst thing that happened all day. You know what, in a city -- an actual CITY -- those things happen. They're so common as to be an afterthought. OF COURSE you might have to park 3-4 blocks away from where you want to go, and that's if you're lucky! But you know, if a place is popular, there won't be parking right in front of the door. To get a parking space right outside the door, that would mean NOBODY GOES THERE. We seem to be completely unwilling to accept that reality here. You mention that to people and they say "Well that happens in Dallas or Chicago, but that's not supposed to happen HERE, this is Tulsa..." We hold ourselves back with that attitude.

Tulsa is a city. We're not a small town. If you don't want to live in a city, go live in Okmulgee or Claremore or Muskogee. Everybody here wants all the benefits and opportunities of a big city and none of the inconveniences that come with it. Get with reality already.

/rant

It looks to me that the Tulsa World has some really backwards notions about development.  The World has equated any and all change with progress and their denigration of Tulsa's historic patrimony has resulted in many grave errors like the loss of every one of our wonderful old movie houses.

Earth to World – this is Tulsa.  We can do better.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

-Are outraged by petty inconveniences others consider to be part of life

Man, did you hit on something there. I think you stated it perfectly.

Check out Mike Brown's editorial from yesterday's Sunday paper. In general it was a fine editorial and I agree with the big picture, but some of the things he said are telling. He stated that Brookside was a great district, but that parking is a "nightmare". OMG, are you kidding, Mike? When I have friends in from other cities and we go to Brookside for a night out they always comment on how easy it is to park there! They say that about every single place we visit -- Cherry Street, Blue Dome, Brady, 18th & Boston, everywhere. A lot of them even say it's a shame there's so much parking -- take some of the parking away and there'd be more room to build stuff to do.

One time I went downtown with out-of-town friends and another Tulsan was driving, and he apologized for getting such a bad parking space -- barely more than a block away on the same street the bar was located!! The out-of-towners looked at him like he was nuts, one of them even said "Um, isn't that the place right there?" and pointed a block up the street. It's like, "Dude, we can SEE the place from where we parked, and you think this is a bad deal? You wouldn't last 10 minutes in the big city where I live."

My interpretation of it is that we have this incredible small-town mentality. Like, if I have to walk more than 100 feet from my car to the door, it's the worst thing that happened all day. You know what, in a city -- an actual CITY -- those things happen. They're so common as to be an afterthought. OF COURSE you might have to park 3-4 blocks away from where you want to go, and that's if you're lucky! But you know, if a place is popular, there won't be parking right in front of the door. To get a parking space right outside the door, that would mean NOBODY GOES THERE. We seem to be completely unwilling to accept that reality here. You mention that to people and they say "Well that happens in Dallas or Chicago, but that's not supposed to happen HERE, this is Tulsa..." We hold ourselves back with that attitude.

Tulsa is a city. We're not a small town. If you don't want to live in a city, go live in Okmulgee or Claremore or Muskogee. Everybody here wants all the benefits and opportunities of a big city and none of the inconveniences that come with it. Get with reality already.

/rant

Absolutely true.  I read that article too and noticed that part about the parking.  I just wanted to wring his neck lol. What a moron.  That guy needs to get out in other cities more or something.  I honestly dont get how he could say that.

[tulsa1603]

I think Tulsa's problem is it's size.  Most of my friends have left this city simply because it isn't "Big" enough for them.  No amount of coolness would bring them back becaise we will always be "small" compared to NYC, LA, Dallas, etc.  in fact, many of them actually were fond of Tulsa, but felt socially limited or isolated, and many with higher educations were too limited in their careers.  So I guess on that note, bring on the jobs, bring on the NEED for more cool stuff, and you'll get it.

I was reading an magazine on the plane the other day, and the writer was reviewing restaurants in Buffalo, NY, which is somewhere Tulsa could probably relate to in coolness factors...anyway, on the door of one of the restaurants, there was a sign that said "not trendy, just good".  How about that for a Tulsa slogan?

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I just figured there was something that would be infinitely more exciting about a big city, or I'd like to live in or near mountains or along or near a beach.

...

I guess my point is, for a city our size, we have a lot to offer.  However, we don't have a couple of the natural resources that a lot of young people idealize: mountains and ocean.  We also don't have a large enough population base to attract a major league sports team.  

Perspective in young people seems to get altered by large population numbers and natural resources.  That's why I always get a good laugh when prospective developers talk about islands in rivers and baseball parks downtown attracting young professionals and retaining them in Tulsa.

Excellent observations. Why do otherwise hip young people move to places not near the ocean or mountains? Because of a job or family, usually. Or school.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I just figured there was something that would be infinitely more exciting about a big city, or I'd like to live in or near mountains or along or near a beach.

...

I guess my point is, for a city our size, we have a lot to offer.  However, we don't have a couple of the natural resources that a lot of young people idealize: mountains and ocean.  We also don't have a large enough population base to attract a major league sports team.  

Perspective in young people seems to get altered by large population numbers and natural resources.  That's why I always get a good laugh when prospective developers talk about islands in rivers and baseball parks downtown attracting young professionals and retaining them in Tulsa.

Excellent observations. Why do otherwise hip young people move to places not near the ocean or mountains? Because of a job or family, usually. Or school.

AJ- Interesting side note to my opinion is that several of my friends who took jobs in places like LA, San Diego, NYC, Atlanta, Dallas,  Phoenix, etc. after college wound up moving back to Tulsa eventually.  They cited things like too much traffic, high cost of living, sprawl, smog,  crime, or they just wanted to be closer to family as reasons they moved back to Tulsa.  

They usually seemed to move back with small children or with that idea in mind.  Seems like the majority of old friends still living in larger cities are single or childless.  

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I just figured there was something that would be infinitely more exciting about a big city, or I'd like to live in or near mountains or along or near a beach.

...

I guess my point is, for a city our size, we have a lot to offer.  However, we don't have a couple of the natural resources that a lot of young people idealize: mountains and ocean.  We also don't have a large enough population base to attract a major league sports team.  

Perspective in young people seems to get altered by large population numbers and natural resources.  That's why I always get a good laugh when prospective developers talk about islands in rivers and baseball parks downtown attracting young professionals and retaining them in Tulsa.

Excellent observations. Why do otherwise hip young people move to places not near the ocean or mountains? Because of a job or family, usually. Or school.

I think many have hit the nail on the head: we need Oklahoma State- Tulsa to become a university with students and dorms.  Austin does not have lakes or mountains.  Austin was smaller than Tulsa at an earlier time.  What Austin possessed was the University of Texas, where Michael Dell attended school and later built his business.
 
We have to remember that we are living in a flat world now.  We aren't just competing for jobs that may go to Texas or  Colorado, we are competing for jobs that could go to China or Ireland.  With the explosion of the internet and the underground fibers that go around the world, many of those white collar jobs can be done anywhere.  The only way your job is safe is if you have a niche, something that sets you apart or a requirement of personal face to face contact.

So how do we compete as a city?  I think we have to invest in education and push more for a comprehensive university in our downtown where research is performed and we have the brightest students available.  And to attract these students who many will re-invest in the city or may create the next must-have software or Dell computers. We need the kind of city that is progressive, that would help lure those students to our city.  That, in my opinion, is where the downtown ballparks, the nightlife, and the entertainment districts are needed.  Bring the students in with a great university and keep them in the city where they have created networking opportunities and have experienced a first-rate city.

[Conan71]

For a city our size, Tulsa was at least 50 years behind the curve in having an initiative for a public four year university.

I never understood when they started "UCAT" why they didn't just add onto the curriculum at TCC and make it a four year university, instead of the multi-school cluster-@#$% it is today?

Austin has Michael Dell, Tulsa has Michael DelGiorno [B)][]

[sendoff]

I don't think the OSU Board of Regents is going to feel compelled to make OSU-Tulsa a full-fledged 4 year university anytime soon. I think too many think it would cannibalize the Stillwater campus (i.e. students, donations, endowments, etc.).

The OSU Board of Regents is comprised of 8 members: 2 are from Stillwater, 2 are from the OKC area, 2 are from western Oklahoma, 1 is from Oklmulgee (home of OSU-Okmulgee), and one is from Tulsa. All are OSU graduates.

Getting something passed through the state legislature would be difficult for similar reasons.

Probably the best bet would be for a grassroots group of Tulsans to send it to a vote of the people through an initiative petition. I think that would have a reasonable chance of passing since the campus is already there and most average citizens in the state would see the benefits of having such a campus in Tulsa. (Plus, since at least half of the state are OU fans, I think any chance they have of ticking off Stillwater would be welcomed. [^])