Concrete - Time Capsule & Civic Center Parking

[AMP]

Anyone recall the problems with the concrete parking at the Civic Center?  Seems portions of the covered parking fell off at times.  

Wonder if that the same type of concrete the Time Capsule Vault was made from?

Noticed an article in Tulsa People magazine that covered the Lafarge North America's Tulsa cement plant in East Tulsa.  It did not mention the ratio of Sand/Cement/Rock used for the Time Capsule or the Civic Center projects that followed.    

[sauerkraut]

The bottom of the time capsule vault did not seem to fail from what I heard. it was built like a swimming pool and showed no cracks and was 6" thick too. What I think failed was the lid and the 3 joint sections and the seam around the lid. Water & dirt leaked in there and that is how the top of the car's plastic got so full of red sand. The water then ran down the car's plastic to the bottom of the vault and kept filling up higher as it rained thru the years. The trunk of the car was full of red dirt. As rain water saturated the soil above the vault lid it desolved the soil and took that inside the vault. IMO.

[Conan71]

Doesn't explain how the water level eventually dropped though.  Watermarks were up to the top of the vault and varied from what I saw.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Doesn't explain how the water level eventually dropped though.  Watermarks were up to the top of the vault and varied from what I saw.

I don't know, maybe the water marks were just from leaks around the edge of the lid over the years. Why would ground water leach thru 6" of cement when the path of least resistance would of been for the ground water to just drain downward? They say the vault bottom looked solid no cracks, if the vault was at one time  full to the brim how did all that water leak out?  they did soil testing around the vault in the past and they said the soil tests always showed dry soil. It does look as if the car was fully under water at one time though I'll give ya that. if the vault only held 3' of water in 50 years why did the top half of the car rust out to? There are questions about it no doubt.

[AMP]

http://www.3d-racing.com/57/html/video.html
CLICK IN THE PHOTO FOR A VIDEO OF THE ACTION

This link is to Videos shot during the cutting of the seams of the lid of the Vault.  Does not appear that the seams were faulty as they were cut clean with the abrasive saw blade.  

There are tale tale cracks on the walls of the lower portion of the Vault that can be seen in a few of these photos.  

http://www.3d-racing.com/57/html/57_10.html

http://www.3d-racing.com/57/html/57_13.html

http://www.3d-racing.com/57/html/57_15.html

[sgrizzle]

I didn't see any crack pictures but I noticed you had pictures of the "spare parts" left after they lifted that car out like a leaf spring.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I didn't see any crack pictures but I noticed you had pictures of the "spare parts" left after they lifted that car out like a leaf spring.

I wondered if something was wrong with the cars rear wheels, it sat very low when it was on display as if the springs were busted. It's no wonder the leaf springs fell out. Geeessshhh! It must of sat in water nearly 50 years then.

[jackcat]

Depending on how the vault was constructed, the joint between the floor slab and walls likely was not water-tight. Concrete on concrete (in consecutive, different pours) is NOT water tight. As an example, on large tanks made of concrete, you must imbed a "water stop" (typically a piece of impermeable material such as rubber) in the first pour and have it stick into the next pour to form a water-tight joint.

So if water may have been able to get in the bottom as well as the top, and then leak out over time as the surrounding water-table fell.

I'm an engineer/underground utility contractor in Iowa moving to Tulsa this summer. I've seen many a weird thing underground, so this situation--while unfortunate--is NOT suprising at all to me.

[AMP]

I am under the impression it was built using reiinforced re-bar tied up, then concrete was sprayed onto that and the outside wall of dirt forming a one piece conrete part similar to how they built swimming pools with gunite then.  The photos show Max True handling the Gunite gun during the construction.  He is also pictured sitting with a man holding the Max True sign at the dig in 2007.  

Still not sure where the failure in the concrete was exactly, Couch may have a better answer as his dad handled the excavation going in and he handled it coming out.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by jackcat

Depending on how the vault was constructed, the joint between the floor slab and walls likely was not water-tight. Concrete on concrete (in consecutive, different pours) is NOT water tight. As an example, on large tanks made of concrete, you must imbed a "water stop" (typically a piece of impermeable material such as rubber) in the first pour and have it stick into the next pour to form a water-tight joint.

So if water may have been able to get in the bottom as well as the top, and then leak out over time as the surrounding water-table fell.

I'm an engineer/underground utility contractor in Iowa moving to Tulsa this summer. I've seen many a weird thing underground, so this situation--while unfortunate--is NOT suprising at all to me.

That's  intresting. I read alot about the making of the vault and they say the company that built it were experts on the building of atomic bomb shelters and storm cellers and things like that. I don't see how a water table can be so high  inside of a downtown area. I do know that anything going into the ground has to air/water tight any small crack or leak will doom it. 50 years is along time to be underground. Articles about the vault building didn't say much about water proofing it, it looks like it was built like a swimming pool though. They poured the cement on site and made the walls 6" thick. They did have a very rainy week in 1957. The Tulsa World article said they started the cement pouring for the vault June 13th, 1957.

[jackcat]

A guess? Likely rainwater runnoff NOT groundwater caused the problem.

Hearing that is was a rainy week in 1957 makes me think that even stronger.

Big guess though! Guess it is kind of a moot point.....