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December 12, 2017, 08:19:49 am
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Author Topic: "The Hive" shooting Downtown.  (Read 7111 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2008, 04:15:19 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by groundhog

Phillip Greer's nickname was "Grimmy".  I can't seem to find his myspace page, although his family identified him as an "entertainer" in his obituary.  Has anyone else located it?  I'm wondering if there was a connection between the Jones and Greer.



There are lots of wannabe "entertainers".  Means they are sponging off someone else and making $50 a week spinning records at a club.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the firstĒ -Ronald Reagan
groundhog
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2008, 08:20:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by groundhog

Phillip Greer's nickname was "Grimmy".  I can't seem to find his myspace page, although his family identified him as an "entertainer" in his obituary.  Has anyone else located it?  I'm wondering if there was a connection between the Jones and Greer.



There are lots of wannabe "entertainers".  Means they are sponging off someone else and making $50 a week spinning records at a club.



Yeah, I know.  And most of them have free Myspace pages.
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Im calling you out
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2008, 10:02:23 am »

what is the meaning behind the name the hive (in the owners mind?)
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YoungTulsan
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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2008, 10:06:56 am »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

But but....crime downtown is low!  Tulsa World (on fire) said so!



This is youth club and/or gang crime.  It is crime, and worthy of attention, however - It does not make going out to dinner at Caz's Chowhouse a dangerous proposition.  It is the type of crime you pretty much have no chance of being the victim of unless you are out at 2AM, and intoxicated - or out at 2AM walking through the ghetto in bright red or blue.

The crimes that scare me are the ones that happen in broad daylight to people minding their own business.
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YoungTulsan
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2008, 10:36:32 am »

quote:
Originally posted by xzyzyx

Wow are you some kind of supporter of that forgotten a counsel member or you actually her. Sometime in the early 90's after hours were obliviated by one stupid law to deter minors from attending after hour bars meanwhile us Adults (18 or over) suffered the consequence. People will be victims of violence, Loss of life will occur but to blame it on one after hour club is just an ignorant statement. I mean would you like for all people to stop driving after the hour of midnight cause that is where allot of shootings happen. Are you really going to blame a simple club that provides ADULTS with a place of enjoyment just because some dumbass wants to start a fight? Really?Huh?? Well maybe you should give me your address so I know where I need to go when the clubs shut down. Adults shouldn't be told when it is time to stop having a good time, but this way their not driving to your house. Self defense is a  defense in case you didnít know that, and in case you were ill-informed as the circumstances of this case I suggest you educate yourself before you decide that after hour bars are a nuisance. I mean, you do believe in the freedom of expression right???Or are you a Fanciest? A commie or just a Baptist please tell me Iím dying for your reply. This crime happened at 2:30; tell me what being open after hours has anything to do with this crime? The bouncers would have still been there the clientele would have still been out side doing what they do. Don't imply that this was a product of being open past 2am because... Well that just shows that you are once again ill informed. Step back look at the big picture and make changes that count!

quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85

This isn't a downtown problem, it's the loophole in the city ordinance that allows clubs to stay open past 2 a.m.  Call your city councilor and tell them to stop talking about changing the ordinance and do it.  Light a fire under them.

The quality of the downtown experience is mostly affected by where you go.  I doubt the average clientele at McNellie's carries a firearm with them on a night out.  And you won't find those obnoxious drunkass rednecks at the Continental because they think that place is as they put it "fer faggots."  I personally don't set foot in those 18 and up clubs because I don't want to hang out with those trashy wanna-be gangster guys that lurk around, realizing with every drink how much more incredibly lame and unattractive to the opposite sex they are.  Then, sometime after 2 a.m., they reach that boiling point where they want to fight everybody.

That must sound pretty biased and elitist, but I guarantee you my perception is not unique.  Change the city ordinance so the sketchy people don't kill the slowly-but-surely emerging downtown vibe.






Make after hours 21 and up just like before 2AM then.  You are defending the rights of adults who are not causing any trouble, so keeping the teens out shouldn't be a problem.

Thats what happens at 2AM, they stop serving alcohol, and teenagers (who found plenty of ways to get intoxicated anyway) swarm upon the public gathering places that now legally let them in.
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YoungTulsan
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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2008, 10:40:51 am »

quote:
Originally posted by grahambino

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

I've never understood the attraction of people wanting to hang with the gangsta crowd.



i agree with you.

that being said, i think that picture of the dude holding a stack of bills might have something to do w/ it.



When I see a picture like that, I'm pretty sure he is holding wads of 1 dollar bills, with one $100 on the bottom that can be seen.
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perspicuity85
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« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2008, 03:45:23 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by xzyzyx

Wow are you some kind of supporter of that forgotten a counsel member or you actually her. Sometime in the early 90's after hours were obliviated by one stupid law to deter minors from attending after hour bars meanwhile us Adults (18 or over) suffered the consequence. People will be victims of violence, Loss of life will occur but to blame it on one after hour club is just an ignorant statement. I mean would you like for all people to stop driving after the hour of midnight cause that is where allot of shootings happen. Are you really going to blame a simple club that provides ADULTS with a place of enjoyment just because some dumbass wants to start a fight? Really?Huh?? Well maybe you should give me your address so I know where I need to go when the clubs shut down. Adults shouldn't be told when it is time to stop having a good time, but this way their not driving to your house. Self defense is a  defense in case you didnít know that, and in case you were ill-informed as the circumstances of this case I suggest you educate yourself before you decide that after hour bars are a nuisance. I mean, you do believe in the freedom of expression right???Or are you a Fanciest? A commie or just a Baptist please tell me Iím dying for your reply. This crime happened at 2:30; tell me what being open after hours has anything to do with this crime? The bouncers would have still been there the clientele would have still been out side doing what they do. Don't imply that this was a product of being open past 2am because... Well that just shows that you are once again ill informed. Step back look at the big picture and make changes that count!

quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85

This isn't a downtown problem, it's the loophole in the city ordinance that allows clubs to stay open past 2 a.m.  Call your city councilor and tell them to stop talking about changing the ordinance and do it.  Light a fire under them.

The quality of the downtown experience is mostly affected by where you go.  I doubt the average clientele at McNellie's carries a firearm with them on a night out.  And you won't find those obnoxious drunkass rednecks at the Continental because they think that place is as they put it "fer faggots."  I personally don't set foot in those 18 and up clubs because I don't want to hang out with those trashy wanna-be gangster guys that lurk around, realizing with every drink how much more incredibly lame and unattractive to the opposite sex they are.  Then, sometime after 2 a.m., they reach that boiling point where they want to fight everybody.

That must sound pretty biased and elitist, but I guarantee you my perception is not unique.  Change the city ordinance so the sketchy people don't kill the slowly-but-surely emerging downtown vibe.







Whoa I just read this! Ok, a communist?  pancakes? Ok, McCarthy.  Like I said in the very beginning, the quality of the downtown experience has to do with WHERE you go.  The Hive and the Ministry of Sound attracted a sketchy clientele, as well as some non-sketchy clientele.  To be clear, I don't think that the post 2 a.m. hours are the principle cause in these shootings.  The sketchy people are the principle cause.  However, I don't think it's responsible for the city to allow nightclubs to stay open past 2 a.m. when the regular bars have to close.  The party ends for everyone but the clubs.  Why shouldn't the clubs have to play by the same rules as every other bar?  I like to party past 2 a.m. myself sometimes, but that doesn't mean it's socially responsible to allow everyone to party after 2 a.m. in in public.  Let's face it, by 2 a.m. most people are pretty tanked, and they need to find a ride to their permanent evening location- whether they're going somewhere to party 'till they pass out, going home to sleep, or going home with someone they think seems attractive at the time[Cheesy].  After 2 a.m. you also attract all the people that have been drinking at home all night home and then suddenly decide that driving to the club is a great idea.  I've been to these clubs at 2 a.m., everyone showing up at that time is completely s**tfaced.  

In most major cities, there are nice clubs that are considered private because you have to purchase a full bottle of something from them at an outrageous price to be a member.  Most of them are 21+ for men and 18+ for women.  Yes, it sounds sexist, etc.  The owners assume that males under 21 are usually the culprits in nightclub violence incidents.  Unfortunately, this is just one of those horrible stereotypes that is frequently true.  Having been a fraternity president at a large state school, I can tell you from experience that there is often a maturity lag in young men when compared to young women.  How did I come to that conclusion- well it's all based on economics actually, but I don't want to get into it right now because it takes a long long time to explain.

The bottom line is, when it comes to security and risk management, you can't take chances, even if there is an adverse impact and potential to piss off some people.  The most important thing is the perception of safety in the minds of all the rule-abiding people that are just having a good time.  If they feel safe, they will come back, and in Tulsa's situation, Downtown will have a positive perception.
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groundhog
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« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2008, 03:28:15 pm »

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