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July 12, 2020, 03:09:28 am
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Author Topic: AEP considers burying lines  (Read 24621 times)
Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2018, 12:09:51 pm »

The death toll from just one line failure-spawned fire in California is expected to be more than a thousand, with over ten thousand structures burned.
I wonder what that will cost, by comparison.

If they tell them to bury the lines they will do it. It just gets charged to customers. Since its 10x the construction cost it will have to be very selective. Basically, people would like to have the lines buried and they don't want to pay for it.
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swake
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« Reply #91 on: November 19, 2018, 12:32:07 pm »

Haven't all new neighborhoods been built with underground lines for something like the last 40 years? Other cities bury the distribution lines. Europe does it. Natural Gas is under ground. Water is underground.

It's not as hard or as expensive as electric companies make it out to be, they just haven't been made to do it.
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patric
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« Reply #92 on: November 19, 2018, 02:26:51 pm »

Haven't all new neighborhoods been built with underground lines for something like the last 40 years? Other cities bury the distribution lines. Europe does it. Natural Gas is under ground. Water is underground.

It's not as hard or as expensive as electric companies make it out to be, they just haven't been made to do it.

But when they are made to do it, it comes across as somewhat spiteful.

Remember "Stop the Box"?
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/underground-lines-hit-a-snag/article_e599824c-85ce-5610-994f-4b803898d6d3.html
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« Reply #93 on: November 19, 2018, 06:35:16 pm »

Haven't all new neighborhoods been built with underground lines for something like the last 40 years? Other cities bury the distribution lines. Europe does it. Natural Gas is under ground. Water is underground.

It's not as hard or as expensive as electric companies make it out to be, they just haven't been made to do it.

I remember there being a big call for it after the 2007 ice storm.
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« Reply #94 on: November 19, 2018, 08:16:16 pm »

The death toll from just one line failure-spawned fire in California is expected to be more than a thousand, with over ten thousand structures burned.
I wonder what that will cost, by comparison.

If the utility companies don't have to indemnify these losses, what do they care about spending the money to bury power lines?
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« Reply #95 on: November 19, 2018, 10:33:53 pm »

If the utility companies don't have to indemnify these losses, what do they care about spending the money to bury power lines?

If PG&E has to go bankrupt, the calculus over buried lines may change quickly.
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« Reply #96 on: November 19, 2018, 11:00:43 pm »

If PG&E has to go bankrupt, the calculus over buried lines may change quickly.

Nationwide push to harden our infrastructure (possibly led by the insurance industry)...  How crazy does that sound?
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Conan71
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« Reply #97 on: November 19, 2018, 11:18:37 pm »

If PG&E has to go bankrupt, the calculus over buried lines may change quickly.

The only way they will end up in BK court is if they have to indemnify losses other than their own, which I find highly unlikely. 
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« Reply #98 on: November 20, 2018, 09:34:48 am »

The only way they will end up in BK court is if they have to indemnify losses other than their own, which I find highly unlikely. 

The stock is down almost 50% since the start of the Camp Fire.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/Can-PG-E-survive-the-Camp-Fire-13403707.php
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Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #99 on: November 20, 2018, 11:19:52 am »

If the utility companies don't have to indemnify these losses, what do they care about spending the money to bury power lines?

Because somebody has to pay for it and the commissions have to sign off on it. You can't just increase your spending by 10x and everybody is fine with it. Also, with competition for building power lines if it isn't specifically mandated then the buried power lines will always be a WAY worse option.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 11:29:01 am by Cats Cats Cats » Logged
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« Reply #100 on: November 20, 2018, 01:35:42 pm »

Let's be clear... whatever the cost, if power lines are ever buried, the cost will be paid by the users of electricity.

Remember, PSO started a program under which they intended to bury all electric distribution lines in Tulsa. I believe they completed one neighborhood, discovered that it was even more expensive than either they or the regulators had anticipated (and that it was perhaps not as popular as anticipated), and the project was quickly abandoned.
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« Reply #101 on: November 20, 2018, 07:47:31 pm »

Let's be clear... whatever the cost, if power lines are ever buried, the cost will be paid by the users of electricity.

Remember, PSO started a program under which they intended to bury all electric distribution lines in Tulsa. I believe they completed one neighborhood, discovered that it was even more expensive than either they or the regulators had anticipated (and that it was perhaps not as popular as anticipated), and the project was quickly abandoned.

AEP applied for and got extra funding from ratepayers for undergrounding and tree management.  They literally put transformers in the middle of some of the nicest yards in Tulsa, prompting neighborhoods to capitulate and call for the end of undergrounding and for the funds to be used to cut trees.

When the Corporation Commission had AEP survey what it would cost to bury all lines, they included the high-voltage transmission towers cris-crossing rural farmland to inflate the cost.  Needless to say, the move to bury electric lines has been disingenuous to say the least.
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Conan71
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« Reply #102 on: November 21, 2018, 05:22:09 pm »


Enlightening article, thank you for sharing.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #103 on: November 25, 2018, 09:51:00 am »

If the utility companies don't have to indemnify these losses, what do they care about spending the money to bury power lines?


If they go bankrupt, the 'C' suite group just writes themselves big bonus checks for a job well done and goes on to reorganize.  Paid for by ratepayers, of course...
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« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2019, 09:51:34 am »

If PG&E has to go bankrupt, the calculus over buried lines may change quickly.

PG&E power lines are found to have caused the Camp Fire and the utility declares bankruptcy.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/business/pge-bankruptcy-wildfires/index.html

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