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November 19, 2017, 11:33:15 pm
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Author Topic: DOT Approved for Motorcycle Riders?  (Read 4588 times)
AMP
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« on: July 17, 2007, 12:02:46 am »

http://www.kotv.com/news/topstory/?id=131638

These things are a cheap way out and a menace to anyone in a small economy vehicle including motorcylists.  I cannot believe Oklahoma would choose to install these "Slice and Dice" contraptions on our highways.  

There are much more humane safety barriers to use that will accomodate and protect all vehicles that pay for the use of a safe and accessible highway.  

I am immediatly forwarding this on to the American Motorcyclists Legislative Alert board.  
 
Good Grief!





CLOSE UP OF THE CABLE SYSTEM THAT WILL SLICE A HUMAN BODY IN TWO, AND REMOVE LIMBS AS WELL.

AS NADER ONCE SAID "UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED"
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AMP
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2007, 12:33:04 am »

Have there been any Crash Tests performed with these Cable Systems using Crash Test Dummys in small economy automobiles or riding on motorcycles of various sizes that are approved for highway use?

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sgrizzle
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2007, 06:26:18 am »

I believe the reason for the switch to these is that they are supposed to be safer, not cheaper. They are basically steel bungee cords.
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Wilbur
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2007, 08:27:00 am »

I believe the idea is not to run into them.[Cheesy]
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guido911
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2007, 08:31:10 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

I believe the idea is not to run into them.[Cheesy]



Well said.

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Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
dbacks fan
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 08:56:29 am »

quote:
Originally posted by AMP

Have there been any Crash Tests performed with these Cable Systems using Crash Test Dummys in small economy automobiles or riding on motorcycles of various sizes that are approved for highway use?





Yes, there was one about a month ago I believe on the Loop 101 in Scottsdale. Motorcyclist lost control at a high rate of speed and was killed when he and his bike hit/slid through the cable barrier. They are effective at stopping crossover accidents, but cars have gone through them because of the shape of the car or the angle that they hit the barrier. The main thing is to slow and stop the car with out crossing over or ricocheting back into traffic.

Although not all barriers work as intended.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/0716mr-crash0716.html
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AMP
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 09:08:25 am »

Is installing an unmarked cable at motorists neck level, stretched tightly across a parking lot entrance to keep out unwanted vehicles is another good idea?  As stated, you are not supposed to run into it.

Granted, the idea is not to have any accidents, however they do occur.  So why install a barrier system that is known to cause additional injuries to a specific group of motorists, and additional damage to vehicles?

Are these types of barriers that cause physical harm to humans ideal at any costs?  

Are there any racing courses that utilize these cable barrier systems versus smooth walls with additional soft barriers such as collapsible walls, Air Fence or soft barrier tire walls?

The use of soft barrier systems has increased awareness of them, and is the same reason most highway engineers use water barrels to protect solid blunt objects, collapsible blunt ends on guardrail systems and the breakaway bottom stands on light poles.  This Cable Barrier system appears to be headed in the the opposite direction.    

Accidents do occur, and you could be forced to take a quick exit off the highway towards one of these "Slice and Dice" barriers, to avoid other motorists in trouble.  Why install this form of dangerously razor sharp sheet metal with stretched cable when other much safer methods are available?

These type of dangerous devices never seem to matter to anyone until a fatality is caused by one or someone is maimed by them.  Especially when it is someone’s family member or friend.
 

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dbacks fan
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 09:17:25 am »

I'm not very fond of them myself. I'm sure that ODOT explained the cost savings and the fact that they are able to repair them quicker than the traditional Jersey/concrete divider they way that ADOT did. In the Phoenix metro area ther is probably 150 miles of this type of barrier on the freeways, although quite a bit of it will be removed when the freeways are widened over the next few years to add HOV lanes and Jersey barriers will be installed in place of the cable system.
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AMP
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 09:41:51 am »

Three tests using automobiles and  a truck.

Have yet to locate the test of a motorcycle hitting the barrier.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=10L8421s18Q

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Wdbcwlu1gU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=woZeuFKEn-Q

Initial cost could be lower, the same or higher than a Jersey DOT Concrete barrier.  However, these appear to be a high maintenance system, requiring additional mowing and trimming exposing workers to harms way while creating  increased maintenance expenses. Not to mention the higher costs of repair of the system when it is used from a collision.  

Thing reminds me of a barrier system used in World War II to keep military vehicles from crossing into enemy territory.

Observe the sharp pieces of shrapnel that are spewed off from this system when a vehicle collides with it, not to mention the jagged edges of the broken metal, set in concrete, that is left exposed above the street level.  
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dbacks fan
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 09:53:04 am »

Here there is not much grass to mow in the center medians, just some small desert plants and the disance between the left edge of the inside lane to the cable barrier is approximately 25 feet on both sides of the roadway. (I checked with one of the guys that works with ADOT where I work) The one really big danger that I see while driving the freeways is the maintenance worker who are sitting on the cables while taking a break. They sometimes lean on the cables with the backs of their legs and hold the cable in their hands.

As for the debris when a car hits one, wrecker drivers here are required to remove as much of it as possible and put down and sweep up any absorbent put down for small leaks. Larger ones are handled by the fire department that responds to the scene. Any larger spills the state is responsible for the clean up of fluids. (Which with the way people drive here is a common occurence)
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 09:58:20 am »

No cable I've seen has ever been "neck level." Even in the picture they are shorter than the barrels which are only 3-4ft tall.

The cable barriers allow bouncing and deflection as opposed to concrete which flattens anything that impacts it. These are pretty much the same material and height as the metal guardrails but easier to repair and do less damage.
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rwarn17588
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2007, 09:59:25 am »

The same people who complain about the safety of these cable barriers are the same ones who complain if additional tax dollars are spent if you build more elaborate ones.

So what do you want? Safer and cheaper? You can't have it both ways.
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dbacks fan
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2007, 10:05:56 am »

As I mentioned earlier there has only been one motorcycle cable barrier incident that I can remember, and possibly the cause of death was not directly related to the cables. In the investigation the speedo on the bike was stuck at 120mph, they believ that he may have been traveling well in excess of 140mph as reported by witnesses to the accident. I think the fastest they have clocked a bike on this freeway is somewhere betwe 145 and 155mph.
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rwarn17588
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2007, 10:25:34 am »

You run into *anything* on a motorcycle at 120 mph, you are gonna die.

The cable barriers obviously aren't the issue in this case.
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buckeye
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2007, 10:38:00 am »

All my life, I've heard that concrete barriers do little to stop a car traveling at normal freeway speed - a car will vault over those things pretty easily and continue into head-on collision traffic.

Motorcycles account for what percentage of motor vehicles on the freeway?  How many motorcycle accidents involve hitting the center barrier?  I'd wager that the new 'rope' barriers save more lives than they put at risk.

Razor sharp?  WWII military fences?  Unmarked neck-level metal rope? "Observe the sharp pieces of shrapnel that are spewed off from this system when a vehicle collides with it, not to mention the jagged edges of the broken metal, set in concrete, that is left exposed above the street level."  As opposed to other collisions, where debris from ruined cars stacks in neat little piles with rounded edges...  You must know that this kind of language borders on histrionic and doesn't do much to help your arguments.
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