Wine at Wal-Mart?

[okcpulse]

bigdtottown,

The reason why liquor stores in Oklahoma no longer sell strong beer is due to a clarification in a law that was enacted after Oklahoma ended prohibition in 1959.  According to the law, no brewer, winery or distiller can enter into a franchise agreement with licensed liquor distributors in Oklahoma.  The law was ignored (or certain manufacturers were unaware) until a lawsuit was filed against Coors in 1976 on behalf of a distributor in Ardmore.  Coors replied to an order made by that distributor by not filling the order, pointing out they already  had a distributor in the area.  

A district judge issued an opinion on the court case in 1977, ordering Coors to sell to the Ardmore distributor or face a violation of franchising.  Coors representatives instead stopped selling to Oklahoma distributors in order to persuade people in Oklahoma to allow franchising.  Anheuser-Busch, Miller and Schlitz all prefer the franchising system a well, and stopped selling their product as well.  Later, in 1978, voters defeated a state question to allow franchising in Oklahoma.  

As it stands, Oklahoma law requires and open wholesale system.  If you, the manufacturer, sell to one distributor in Oklahoma, you are required by law to sell to all distributors on a same price basis.  The only other state that bans franchising among distributors is Utah, where no strong domestic beer is sold as well.  Refrigeration was part if the issue, but not the sole reason why sales ceased.  Kansas also required an open wholesale system, but changed the law in 1978 after the events that occurred in Oklahoma.  In a franchise agreement, the wholesale distributor must follow the manufacturer's policy on quality control and advertising.  In an open wholesale system, where the product is 'imported' by a broker, the wholesale distributor is not required to follow manufacturer's policies.  

3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws, and thus, franchising among low-point beer distributors is allowed, and can be maintained at constant refrigeration.  So no law was changed, it was the result of a legal dispute.

[Hawkins]

I'm in favor of wine sales at grocery stores.

That's pretty much common sense, and I had become accustomed to it while living in Dallas.

[rwarn17588]

Quick question:

Does Wal-Mart sell wine in *any* state?

I've been in about three dozen states, and I've never seen wine in a Wal-Mart in any of them.

[Ibanez]

Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.

What do I mean?

Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.

In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?

Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.

For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.

Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.

Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.


Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Quick question:

Does Wal-Mart sell wine in *any* state?

I've been in about three dozen states, and I've never seen wine in a Wal-Mart in any of them.

You haven't looked.  Just like any other grocer, Wal-Mart sells wine anywhere it is able to for the 30% markup.  Try any wet county in Texas:

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/mar2006/pi20060324_117687.htm

[rwarn17588]

Guess I missed it. But then again, I'm a beer man.  []

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

bigdtottown,

The reason why liquor stores in Oklahoma no longer sell strong beer is due to a clarification in a law that was enacted after Oklahoma ended prohibition in 1959.  According to the law, no brewer, winery or distiller can enter into a franchise agreement with licensed liquor distributors in Oklahoma.  The law was ignored (or certain manufacturers were unaware) until a lawsuit was filed against Coors in 1976 on behalf of a distributor in Ardmore.  Coors replied to an order made by that distributor by not filling the order, pointing out they already  had a distributor in the area.  

A district judge issued an opinion on the court case in 1977, ordering Coors to sell to the Ardmore distributor or face a violation of franchising.  Coors representatives instead stopped selling to Oklahoma distributors in order to persuade people in Oklahoma to allow franchising.  Anheuser-Busch, Miller and Schlitz all prefer the franchising system a well, and stopped selling their product as well.  Later, in 1978, voters defeated a state question to allow franchising in Oklahoma.  

As it stands, Oklahoma law requires and open wholesale system.  If you, the manufacturer, sell to one distributor in Oklahoma, you are required by law to sell to all distributors on a same price basis.  The only other state that bans franchising among distributors is Utah, where no strong domestic beer is sold as well.  Refrigeration was part if the issue, but not the sole reason why sales ceased.  Kansas also required an open wholesale system, but changed the law in 1978 after the events that occurred in Oklahoma.  In a franchise agreement, the wholesale distributor must follow the manufacturer's policy on quality control and advertising.  In an open wholesale system, where the product is 'imported' by a broker, the wholesale distributor is not required to follow manufacturer's policies.  

3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws, and thus, franchising among low-point beer distributors is allowed, and can be maintained at constant refrigeration.  So no law was changed, it was the result of a legal dispute.

i read that twice and it makes absolutely no sense.  Just a bunch of cooked up bull**** to make selling alcohol hard.  Bureacracy at its finest.

[Johnboy976]

Believe it or not, but the top five states with the least number of alcohol related deaths allow wine and high-point beer (for the exception of Kentucky).

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.

What do I mean?

Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.

In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?

Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.

For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.

Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.

Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.


Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.

This does not propose to include liquor so the comparison is pointless.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by Johnboy976

Believe it or not, but the top five states with the least number of alcohol related deaths allow wine and high-point beer (for the exception of Kentucky).

No way!

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.

What do I mean?

Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.

In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?

Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.

For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.

Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.

Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.


Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.

This does not propose to include liquor so the comparison is pointless.

No, it isn't. The same thing happens with beer and wine. If you will notice I said that most of the liquor stores in Michigan were pretty much high end wine selllers. Very little beer, if any, was carried in stock. I about went out of my mind trying to find a Guinness up there. Same thing goes for Newcastle, Bass, etc.... If you aren't drinking Bud or Coors you aren't drinking beer. Occasionally you could find a Sam Adams, but even that was rare.

Florida isn't quite as bad, but the same thing happens there. The liquor stores tend to be smaller, carry less and seem to carry mostly the higher end wine. I did have better luck finding beer in the grocery stores down there, but for the most part they to mostly only carry the "major" brands like  Bud, Miller and Coors. If you can even call those beer.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.

What do I mean?

Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.

In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?

Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.

For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.

Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.

Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.


Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.

This does not propose to include liquor so the comparison is pointless.

No, it isn't. The same thing happens with beer and wine. If you will notice I said that most of the liquor stores in Michigan were pretty much high end wine selllers. Very little beer, if any, was carried in stock. I about went out of my mind trying to find a Guinness up there. Same thing goes for Newcastle, Bass, etc.... If you aren't drinking Bud or Coors you aren't drinking beer. Occasionally you could find a Sam Adams, but even that was rare.

Florida isn't quite as bad, but the same thing happens there. The liquor stores tend to be smaller, carry less and seem to carry mostly the higher end wine. I did have better luck finding beer in the grocery stores down there, but for the most part they to mostly only carry the "major" brands like  Bud, Miller and Coors. If you can even call those beer.

I've never had a problem in Illinois, North Carolina, or Texas.

[Steve]

I rarely drink beer, and drink wine even less often, so selling these items in grocery and convenience stores is really a non-issue for me.  I don't care much if the issue passes or not.  I do think that for certain retailers to use the restriction as a reason for not doing business in Oklahoma, that is a pretty lame excuse.  I have no problem with the grocers we currently have.

I do think the issue will be a hard sell, and will be as tough to pass as the liquor-by-the-drink issue was.  OK finally legalized cocktail bars in 1984 after some 5 different statewide votes from the 1960's to 1984.  This issue will be no different, IMO.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

bigdtottown,

The reason why liquor stores in Oklahoma no longer sell strong beer is due to a clarification in a law that was enacted after Oklahoma ended prohibition in 1959.  According to the law, no brewer, winery or distiller can enter into a franchise agreement with licensed liquor distributors in Oklahoma.  The law was ignored (or certain manufacturers were unaware) until a lawsuit was filed against Coors in 1976 on behalf of a distributor in Ardmore.  Coors replied to an order made by that distributor by not filling the order, pointing out they already  had a distributor in the area.  

A district judge issued an opinion on the court case in 1977, ordering Coors to sell to the Ardmore distributor or face a violation of franchising.  Coors representatives instead stopped selling to Oklahoma distributors in order to persuade people in Oklahoma to allow franchising.  Anheuser-Busch, Miller and Schlitz all prefer the franchising system a well, and stopped selling their product as well.  Later, in 1978, voters defeated a state question to allow franchising in Oklahoma.  

As it stands, Oklahoma law requires and open wholesale system.  If you, the manufacturer, sell to one distributor in Oklahoma, you are required by law to sell to all distributors on a same price basis.  The only other state that bans franchising among distributors is Utah, where no strong domestic beer is sold as well.  Refrigeration was part if the issue, but not the sole reason why sales ceased.  Kansas also required an open wholesale system, but changed the law in 1978 after the events that occurred in Oklahoma.  In a franchise agreement, the wholesale distributor must follow the manufacturer's policy on quality control and advertising.  In an open wholesale system, where the product is 'imported' by a broker, the wholesale distributor is not required to follow manufacturer's policies.  

3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws, and thus, franchising among low-point beer distributors is allowed, and can be maintained at constant refrigeration.  So no law was changed, it was the result of a legal dispute.

Ironically, this franchising law actually causes many import and high-end beers to sell better in OK than they would otherwise.  College students frequently buy Newcastle or Bass instead of Budweiser at the liquor stores because they want real beer.  The crazy thing is that the so-called "6 point" beer rarely actually has 6% alcohol.  Most beers really have only about 4.9% if you read their websites.

[Rico]

 This could be the solution we have been looking for.........

What do we do to get the Homeless people off the streets..?

Sell Wine at Wally World...

 They could all set up a Camp in the ocean of asphalt surrounding the Isle of the Big Box....!

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