PAC Parking Lot Development

[Jake]

nvm

[DowntownDan]

Wasn't office space in the original plan? Maybe the extra levels were office space that doesn't have a market right now with WPX having a bunch of office space it needs to lease.

[swake]

It is neither hilarious or heartbreaking and far far from 'it's better than what's there now'.

This wasn't originally proposed as a high-rise and was never actually confirmed by the developer even after some of those new renderings began floating around. This still looks almost entirely like the original plan but with a hotel and slightly smaller grocer. The high-rise renderings was a function of the size of space Reasor's wanted, they would have needed the entire 3rd street frontage and the developer also wanted a hotel as part of the project. The hotel wasn't part of the orginal proposal and once it was added it did change the design to what you are thinking was the original proposal showing the high-rise. At that point, it made sense to shrink the footprint of the residential portion (going from 10-12 stories to 20+) and put the hotel on the other corner along 2nd while giving Reasor's the entire southern half of the block along 3rd. The original proposal and the only one ever actually discussed by the developer's really publicly was the the 10-12 story residential tower with the grocer that looks nearly identical to what the new rendering shows in the World.

Given the grocer going in is about 10-15,000 sq ft smaller than Reasor's would have been, they can now fit the hotel on the other portion of the southern part of the lot along 3rd. Leaving the entire northern part of the lot along 2nd for the residential tower. There is zero reason to make the tower 20+ storey now that they can use the entire 2nd street frontage for residential.

According to what the TW wrote they also cut the garage size from 636 to 450. With a 240 unit apartment building, 100 room hotel and grocery store is 450 enough spaces to service the PAC as well?

Incidentally, the 26 story tower is still on the Flaherty & Collins website. That website also still has the garage at 636 spaces and notes a 35,000 Sq Ft grocery location.
https://flco.com/company-properties/the-annex/

[SXSW]

For parking let's say the 240 units breakdown into the following: 25% studio, 50% one bed and 25% two bed units.  That's 300 bedrooms.  If they park it one stall per bedroom that's 300 stalls for the apartments.  That leaves 150 for the grocery store, hotel and PAC. 

[LandArchPoke]

nvm

I get a lot of developments here seem to be bait and switch (Cimarex, Santa Fe Square, etc.) this just isn't one of them. If you look at the proposal they submitted to win the competition with the PAC from the other three developers what they are proposing now is still more than what was in the orginal proposal. The high-rise version didn't come about until much later in the proses for the reasons I said. If you want to see high-rise residential, this project is going to lead that route because they are still going to have to build it with steel/concrete and charge higher rents so it will test/establish a market for where rental rates can go in Tulsa and if the market will support high-rise residential. So all in all this isn't the development to be disappointed about compared to say Santa Fe Square currently.

[LandArchPoke]

For parking let's say the 240 units breakdown into the following: 25% studio, 50% one bed and 25% two bed units.  That's 300 bedrooms.  If they park it one stall per bedroom that's 300 stalls for the apartments.  That leaves 150 for the grocery store, hotel and PAC. 

That's a good breakdown, plus those 300 stalls will never be 100% in use during the day time when the grocer and or PAC would be holding events. The hotel will likely valet cars which means they can park a lot in a very small amount of space. The PAC events are not going on when the grocer would be busy either so really it's a good use of space and they actually seem to not be over building parking here. The PAC could always offer valet services too and use that garage. With the massive garage at Santa Fe Square too just a couple blocks away that can more than easily handle any over flow parking for any PAC event too.

I still don't understand why the City has not retrofitted their parking garage given it's location to open in the evenings. Like use some of the COVID funds to upgrade security so no one can access the building and open it for free in the evenings. It's right in the middle of Blue Dome/Greenwood/Arts District - just seems dumb we have a public asset sitting there restricted and unused in such a valuable location for a parking structure.

[Vision 2025]

While the PAC typically has Saturday and Sunday matinées, the majority of shows are typically in the evening at 7 or 7:30.

[SXSW]

Here is a rendering from 2nd & Detroit.  My guess is the Detroit parking garage entrance will be for the grocery store/PAC with an escalator/elevator into the grocery store above.  The other garage entrance on 2nd will be for the apartment residents and hotel.  

Typically the main lobby/leasing center would be located in the middle of the block adjacent to the parking entrance (there will likely be a handful of visitor spaces adjacent to the lobby).  There will be some kind of retail space, not sure if it is located at the Detroit or Cincinnati corner though.

[shavethewhales]

Even though it's not a "tower", that 11 stories will really fill up the area and add a ton of density. Kinda odd that they are putting the apartments on the PAC corner rather than putting the hotel or store there, but I guess it might have something to do with the grading since that corner is the high point and both the store and the hotel need the basement/parking levels.

[SXSW]

Even though it's not a "tower", that 11 stories will really fill up the area and add a ton of density. Kinda odd that they are putting the apartments on the PAC corner rather than putting the hotel or store there, but I guess it might have something to do with the grading since that corner is the high point and both the store and the hotel need the basement/parking levels.

Exactly, you can just partially excavate the site and get nearly the entire existing lot of parking underneath the grocery and hotel fronting 3rd.  Agree on the density this is overall a great project for this location.  Now just need this one and Santa Fe to actually start in mid-2022.  

[owenix]

Reasors was sold today to Brookshire Grocery Company. This may explain the unnamed chain indicated in the sale article from September.

[tulsabug]

Reasors was sold today to Brookshire Grocery Company. This may explain the unnamed chain indicated in the sale article from September.

Sad to see anything go under a Texas company's ownership but Reasors did seem to be lacking in the capital they needed to compete so I guess better than languishing. I can't imagine the unnamed chain is Reasors though - seems more in line with an Aldi or something.

[swake]

Pretty sure it's Homeland.

[tulsabug]

Pretty sure it's Homeland.

Has Homeland actually built any stores lately or just converted ones they've acquired? I'm not saying they couldn't build something new but I would think if they're wanting to reenter the Tulsa market they'd be better off buying an existing store that was at least making money as opposed to this relative unknown. I mean - we all would like a grocery store downtown but business-wise it's a total crap-shoot on it's actual viability even with people actually living downtown.

[SXSW]

Has Homeland actually built any stores lately or just converted ones they've acquired? I'm not saying they couldn't build something new but I would think if they're wanting to reenter the Tulsa market they'd be better off buying an existing store that was at least making money as opposed to this relative unknown. I mean - we all would like a grocery store downtown but business-wise it's a total crap-shoot on it's actual viability even with people actually living downtown.

Homeland recently built a 30k sf new store in NE OKC that is pretty nice.