Massive new car factory for Pryor

[SXSW]

It's between somewhere in Canada and MAIP in Oklahoma? 

[tulsabug]

Welp - so much for that - https://news.yahoo.com/vw-backed-scout-motors-build-163732799.html

[Jake]

To be fair, they were supposedly going to build both a manufacturing plant and a battery plant:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagen-constructive-talks-over-first-gigafactory-north-america-2023-03-03/



Although I’m as negative and skeptical as the next person, so I just assume Oklahoma screwed it up again.

[smitteebc]

Welp - so much for that - https://news.yahoo.com/vw-backed-scout-motors-build-163732799.html

That one apparently wasn’t what Oklahoma was going for. Supposedly there the battery factory is what we are going after, between Pryor and Canada. I saw a report the VW board is still working on this decision. Although it doesn’t look good if they can’t make this decision the same time as the SC plant. Makes me think Oklahoma screwed up again.

[shavethewhales]

Yup. Don't let the crazy circumstances of the last several efforts distract you from the fact that when it comes down to it, Oklahoma can't compete. We've got some minor geographical advantages such as the port and highway crossroads, but we lack the workforce, education systems, investment dollars, political environment, and everything else that attracts business. Better to go after smaller on-shoring manufacturing opportunities at this point, I would think.

[LandArchPoke]

Yup. Don't let the crazy circumstances of the last several efforts distract you from the fact that when it comes down to it, Oklahoma can't compete. We've got some minor geographical advantages such as the port and highway crossroads, but we lack the workforce, education systems, investment dollars, political environment, and everything else that attracts business. Better to go after smaller on-shoring manufacturing opportunities at this point, I would think.

I'm as big of an Oklahoma politic hater as there is, but at the same time no one can tell me that South Carolina somehow has a better educational, political, or workforce than Northeast Oklahoma. They don't, sorry. It's not like we're losing out to places like Minnesota, Colorado, Oregon, etc. that are some polar opposite of Oklahoma currently.

We're getting passed over primarily because we don't seem to take incentives as seriously as other states and Mid America has an alarming lack of housing in and around the park. Until MIAP resolves that, it's going to be really hard to catch these mega projects. If MIAP was in Inola or just a bit closer to Tulsa suburbs it probably wouldn't be an issue. But say the Scout plant location and De Soto are in areas where there is just more accessible housing and other critical needs that Mayes County just doesn't have yet. MIAP leadership really need to invest in some time to getting a housing plan together or start acquiring large parcels and getting them permitted for housing and ready to show that they have the ability to deal with 3,000+ people moving to the area. A crappy house in Pryor can cost over $300,000 - that's now - add that many more new people to an area that is no where close to prepared for mass housing starts, etc.

I don't know if Scout was ever even looking at Oklahoma, that was just me reading between the lines that it seemed like they were by leaks and other things. The battery plant is what has been confirmed that is looking at either Oklahoma or Canada. So we'll see, when we didn't hear anything on Friday or yet makes me think that Canada is probably their top choice and Oklahoma is the bait/back up. 

[swake]

I'm as big of an Oklahoma politic hater as there is, but at the same time no one can tell me that South Carolina somehow has a better educational, political, or workforce than Northeast Oklahoma. They don't, sorry. It's not like we're losing out to places like Minnesota, Colorado, Oregon, etc. that are some polar opposite of Oklahoma currently.

We're getting passed over primarily because we don't seem to take incentives as seriously as other states and Mid America has an alarming lack of housing in and around the park. Until MIAP resolves that, it's going to be really hard to catch these mega projects. If MIAP was in Inola or just a bit closer to Tulsa suburbs it probably wouldn't be an issue. But say the Scout plant location and De Soto are in areas where there is just more accessible housing and other critical needs that Mayes County just doesn't have yet. MIAP leadership really need to invest in some time to getting a housing plan together or start acquiring large parcels and getting them permitted for housing and ready to show that they have the ability to deal with 3,000+ people moving to the area. A crappy house in Pryor can cost over $300,000 - that's now - add that many more new people to an area that is no where close to prepared for mass housing starts, etc.

I don't know if Scout was ever even looking at Oklahoma, that was just me reading between the lines that it seemed like they were by leaks and other things. The battery plant is what has been confirmed that is looking at either Oklahoma or Canada. So we'll see, when we didn't hear anything on Friday or yet makes me think that Canada is probably their top choice and Oklahoma is the bait/back up.  

I agree with the politics part being the same in South Carolina, except for one thing. Mayes County voted against incentives due to a lot of NIMBY talk about how they don't want growth or outsiders. Big plants probably don't want to go where they aren't wanted.

Hopefully the Port of Inola area in Rogers County and mostly in the city of Tulsa will soon be able to take the place of Mid-America for these large projects.

[SXSW]

It seems like the industrial park in Fair Oaks where Tesla was looking at would be a better option for these factories because it would be next to Tulsa and easier access to labor.  I know they are working on utility extensions there to get it ready for development.  Mayes County isn’t working.

[Red Arrow]

  Mayes County isn’t working.

Actually, it is working.... the way Mayes County wants it to work.

[Red Arrow]

Mayes County voted against incentives due to a lot of NIMBY talk about how they don't want growth or outsiders.

I can understand that Chouteau and Pryor don't want to become the next Broken Arrow, Jenks, Owasso, Bixby.  That's what they would get, not an urban center like most here want Tulsa to return to.  As much as people here despise the suburban sprawl, how could "we" wish that on someone else?

[Tulsan]

The Scout factory was never in play.  It's always been a gigafactory for MAIP because of the GRDA hydroelectric option -- the power is cheap and dependable and the charged power cells will be manufactured carbon neutral.  Panasonic... Tesla... Volkswagen.  Somebody's going to build a gigafactory in MAIP.  

And the VW board was supposed to take this up Friday but some quirk of German corporate law prevented them from doing both Scout and the gigafactory in the same day.  So they'll decide between MAIP and Canada next week.  It may be a few weeks before the decision is public.

Also - the thing our people could learn from South Carolina is how to respect an NDA.  Notice the SC site still isn't public?  It doesn't make these corporations happy when details get out through the governor's office.

[LandArchPoke]

It seems like the industrial park in Fair Oaks where Tesla was looking at would be a better option for these factories because it would be next to Tulsa and easier access to labor.  I know they are working on utility extensions there to get it ready for development.  Mayes County isn’t working.

I do believe that is why there is a sense of urgency around getting the Fair Oaks urban center plan moving. The water/sewer line that got state ARPA funding was huge to move it forward. They're doing what MAIP should have been doing years ago which is a job center plus housing plan. Fair Oaks will be one of the largest new urbanist planned communities in the country. So they'll be able to sell companies on the fact that they can locate there and within 1-2 miles there is zoning approvals and master plan ready for 10,000+ homes/apartments/etc.

Actually, it is working.... the way Mayes County wants it to work.

It's hard to fault the fear many have when you can't buy a decent house in Pryor for under $300k. It's a lack of planning on Mayes County officials and it's a shame because there's a lot of opportunity there. I think until they can develop a plan on how to deal with a several thousand person employer coming in and not just 'the market will figure itself out' type of thing most people are going to be fearful that they're going to get priced out because they already are in current time. I'm very pro development, but it's hard to not understand why many residents there don't want more MAIP development without a more strategic plan from officials on how they plan to deal with that many people moving there.

[Red Arrow]

I'm very pro development, but it's hard to not understand why many residents there don't want more MAIP development without a more strategic plan from officials on how they plan to deal with that many people moving there.

Or....there is another possibility that many folks there are happy being a mostly rural community and don't want that massive growth no matter how well intentioned and planned it might be by pro-development folks.  I worked at a place in MAIP in the 90s.  Several people that lived in Chouteau expressed that there was a no-growth attitude even then.  They didn't all agree but the attitude was there.

MAIP exists mostly because it is left over from World War II.  I believe it was a POW camp.

[Hoss]

I agree with the politics part being the same in South Carolina, except for one thing. Mayes County voted against incentives due to a lot of NIMBY talk about how they don't want growth or outsiders. Big plants probably don't want to go where they aren't wanted.

Hopefully the Port of Inola area in Rogers County and mostly in the city of Tulsa will soon be able to take the place of Mid-America for these large projects.

Isn't the Inola port just the old location of the never constructed Black Fox Nuclear Power Plant?

[SXSW]

Isn't the Inola port just the old location of the never constructed Black Fox Nuclear Power Plant?

Yes, and unlike MAIP it's 30 miles from downtown Tulsa and even closer to parts of east Tulsa and Broken Arrow.  It has rail access and a barge slip on the Verdigris River.  It would be a fantastic site for one of these megafactories.