A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 02, 2022, 04:33:11 pm
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Massive new car factory for Pryor  (Read 24027 times)
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 13007



« Reply #210 on: July 15, 2022, 07:45:09 pm »

I get people feel this way... but I mean come on do you really think Oklahoma is that much worse than say Kansas? What about Arkansas, Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, etc. You think Huckabee is going to be less embarrassing than Stitt? Frankly I'd take Stitt over her any day, he at least runs a business even though he's corrupt. I think this election cycle's races in Oklahoma are going to be closer than many think and I hope Dems/Ind. actually go vote and we get someone like Joy, etc. in as leadership to counter the legislature a bit. People just need to stop bemoaning themselves and go vote.  


I still believe the biggest barrier to Tulsa succeeding is the mindset of not thinking big enough and general apathy amongst our population. We market ourselves poorly and we are not aggressive enough in business recruitment. That is 100% of the reason we are getting passed over.

Frankly it wouldn't take very long for Oklahoma to become a battle ground state if we could land a handful of good corporate expansions. The Dem/Independent voter difference to Republicans is not as large as many would think, it's just than voter turnout and excitement especially for non-Republicans is awful. That's been by design on the Republican side.


Corporate America does not care about politics what so ever. If they did, why are they still donating so much to the Republican party? Toyota is one of the biggest donors to the insurrections now and they're HQed in Plano. You think they care? Nope. So our politics didn't scare Toyota USA HQ away from Oklahoma I can assure you that. They definitely didn't pick Plano or Dallas because it's some liberal mecca either. There is a specific recruitment team in Collin County that goes to California and other states to tell CEO's about Jesus and how Collin County has the best churches and is God's suburban paradise - I'm not joking. Yet if something like that happened in Oklahoma people who claim it's running off business investment. It's not.




The reasons we don't do better is because we choose NOT to do better!

In no particular order;

Education
Infrastructure
Health

And we are ALWAYS at the bottom on all of them.  No matter what.

Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Red Arrow
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10711


WWW
« Reply #211 on: July 15, 2022, 10:46:06 pm »

Maybe Oklahoma would do better if Gov Stitt made advertisements for sleep medicine.


Logged

 
Red Arrow
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10711


WWW
« Reply #212 on: July 15, 2022, 11:00:00 pm »

Ronald Reagan said he didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left him.  I am kind of feeling the same way about the Republican Party, at least in this part of the USA.


Logged

 
LandArchPoke
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 747



« Reply #213 on: July 15, 2022, 11:44:01 pm »



The reasons we don't do better is because we choose NOT to do better!

In no particular order;

Education
Infrastructure
Health

And we are ALWAYS at the bottom on all of them.  No matter what.



Infrastructure I feel is probably one of the biggest followed closely by education.

2 things Texas has done that helped separate Dallas from places like Tulsa and other competition back decades ago.

Establishing dedicated funding through oil revenues for the universities. A&M and UT are what they are because of that, if OSU and OU had that type of dedicated funding we would have a gold mine of talent coming through the state.

They made key infrastructure investments with things like hub airports. They are now on the verge of having the first privately operated high-speed rail system in the US. Their highway and other infrastructure investments have been above and beyond other states. However, they are sitting on a massive debt bomb because of this, that if they have any hick-up in growth over the next decade or two could likely lead them into bankruptcy without massive tax increases.

The two together were the backbone to positioning them as a top tier business relocation state. Obviously the addition of no income tax and other factors play a role too but you can have all the incentives and other BS you want, but if you don't have the infrastructure to support the business or people to support the business the rest is irrelevant.

OU Poly I think could be a game changer for Tulsa long-term. OSU I hope follows with a similar tech focused campus in Tulsa. Build out more grad school programs.

We have got to figure out how to get more direct flights into TUL. Why not have a master plan for a major expansion of TUL and go recruit an airline like Frontier or something to make TUL a hub or focus city. Frontier is kind of like an unwanted third wheel at Denver, why not incentivize them to move here? Throw everything in the dang book at them. Or go after JetBlue, etc. - someone who is operating at hubs that are well over capacity already and have majors already taking up most of the resources at the hub that could use a middle America presence. The majority of passengers who fly through Denver are no locals and not people visiting Colorado. Same with Salt Lake, etc. They are hubs because they made the investment in the facilities to be one. The entire Salt Lake region is a lot smaller than the OKC-Tulsa-NWA region. 

Why our city leadership allows AA to take advantage of us and then not even make them increase air service here is our biggest wasted opportunity infrastructure wise. We should at least require them as part of a lease agreement to maintain flights to every single on of their hubs. Why do we not have direct service to Miami, etc.? And for as much money as we give them and they can't give us 1-2 flights a day to all their hubs/focus cities? Give me a break. This is weak leadership from the city thinking we don't deserve or can't ask for things like this because we should just gravel and be thankful they are even here.

Also, for everything I've said I do think we should hold the Republican's feet to the fire. They do have fault in this for being lazy and not prioritizing economic development. They waited way too long to pass our economic packages because they were wasting time with other bills they didn't need to be doing and most of those were purely 'political' bills. The Kansas legislature passed their economics package first thing then moved on to the crazy stuff while we did the opposite. We did piss Panasonic off to the point Stitt had to have that press conference and force the legislature to get off their as* and pass it. I think that was the moment in time we lost the deal when that took so long and as soon as that finally passed a lawsuit was filed over the TIF. Their board needed to make an announcement on location and if we had taken care of business when the legislature first went into sessions we might be looking at a very different situation. But that goes back to the point that Oklahoma never has taken economic development seriously while our neighbors prioritize it and then circle back to the crazy shi*.

I hate to see some many people who love Tulsa get so frustrated and want to leave. I hope people don't, it just makes it worse. If more people stick around and advocate for things the better off we are. Just keep states like Colorado in mind, it's not impossible to change the dynamics of this state. We have to get rid of apathy and get people engaged. It wouldn't take much of an uptick in population growth between both OKC and Tulsa to switch the politics of the state - it really wasn't that long ago that we have a Democrat as a Governor. OKC used to be one of the most conservative bigger cities in the US and that is no where near the case anymore, and a lot of that comes down to population growth over the last 10-15 years that has really changed the political dynamics of that area. The more people that leave and give up the worse it gets, I know it sucks and is frustrating but that's what they are hoping happens - don't let it.    
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 12:01:56 am by LandArchPoke » Logged
SXSW
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4677


WWW
« Reply #214 on: July 16, 2022, 03:51:35 pm »

^ Agree with AA, though they have stepped it up recently at TUL.  Nonstop flights to DFW, Austin, Phoenix, Los Angeles, Chicago, Charlotte, Washington DC and Miami (Sat only).  Starting New York LGA this November.  The only hub they wonít serve is Philadelphia.  Could use more frequency though.
Logged

 
tulsabug
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 350


« Reply #215 on: July 16, 2022, 07:53:46 pm »

Oh look - went to get a replacement social security card online but just found out Oklahoma hasn't linked their driver's license database to the Feds. Oklahoma is only one of 7 states that hasn't done it. Texas, Kansas, & Missouri have. Heck - every state in the South except Alabama has but no, not "ain't gonna tell me what to do" Oklahoma. Every time I've had to deal with the state for our business I've found they are disorganized, confused, behind the times, and generally apathetic to being professional. They're right on the ball with serving the religious right but for businesses they're worthless. I can't imagine Panasonic, who really needed a well-functioning bureaucracy to deal with all the issues of building a large factory here was remotely impressed with the amateur hour they ran into. Now - I don't have any proof of this - just extrapolating from my own experience but I'm willing to bet we can tag that on to the list of reasons Oklahoma gets overlooked.
Logged
SXSW
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4677


WWW
« Reply #216 on: July 16, 2022, 08:25:49 pm »

That didnít seem to dissuade Google from investing billions of dollars in Oklahoma.  But I do think we all agree the state (and Tulsa) could do better in economic development and general sophistication.  Tulsa finally has a team dedicated to it which is a welcome change.  Both need to have better social media presence.  David Holt, the OKC Mayor, is well liked by Democrats and Republicans and does a fantastic job promoting OKC on social media.  GT Bynum, Arthur Jackson, David Stewart/MAIP, et al need to be constantly promoting on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc
Logged

 
Jake
Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 29


« Reply #217 on: August 26, 2022, 08:59:12 am »

https://www.pcmag.com/news/panasonic-in-talks-to-build-4-billion-oklahoma-ev-battery-plant
Logged
LandArchPoke
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 747



« Reply #218 on: August 26, 2022, 09:03:28 am »


I believe the time to challenge the TIF to get it on the ballot is past, so not surprised this has resurfaced. Matt Swift, the one Commissioner who voted no and didn't want the TIF or the plant there lost his election too this week. Not sure if his opponent that one is pro TIF though but did find that interesting.
Logged
SXSW
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4677


WWW
« Reply #219 on: August 26, 2022, 09:05:58 pm »

There were always rumors of two plants but many thought they would both be at Sunflower in Kansas.  One in Kansas and another in Oklahoma makes sense though.
Logged

 
swake
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 8078



« Reply #220 on: August 26, 2022, 09:36:45 pm »

There were always rumors of two plants but many thought they would both be at Sunflower in Kansas.  One in Kansas and another in Oklahoma makes sense though.

This with Canoo looking more and more real, is a game changer.
Logged
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 13007



« Reply #221 on: August 27, 2022, 07:18:35 am »

That didnít seem to dissuade Google from investing billions of dollars in Oklahoma.  But I do think we all agree the state (and Tulsa) could do better in economic development and general sophistication.  Tulsa finally has a team dedicated to it which is a welcome change.  Both need to have better social media presence.  David Holt, the OKC Mayor, is well liked by Democrats and Republicans and does a fantastic job promoting OKC on social media.  GT Bynum, Arthur Jackson, David Stewart/MAIP, et al need to be constantly promoting on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc



Cheap electricity for those big power sucking boxes they build.  I have done some modest sized motor testing in the past - 2,000 to 3,000 HP electric motors - and was able to get electricity for about 1.5 cents per KWh during off times, after about 5 pm.   Of course, prime time afternoon was several dollars per KWh under those programs, but just tested at night. 

Google is getting a great electric deal, 24/7, for that big box!!  And they don't need that many people there, and the ones they have are technical but not being paid big city wages either.



Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 7857


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #222 on: August 27, 2022, 09:09:16 am »

There were always rumors of two plants but many thought they would both be at Sunflower in Kansas.  One in Kansas and another in Oklahoma makes sense though.



TULSA, Okla. ó Panasonic Holdings Corp, a Tesla supplier, is in discussions to build an additional battery plant in the U.S. and the company is looking at Oklahoma again, The Wall Street Journal reports.

The EV battery plant would be roughly $4 billion, though there are no guarantees that an agreement will be reached.

In July, Panasonic chose Kansas for their new plant, despite Oklahoma offering up to $700 million in rebates.
Kansas and Oklahoma are convenient locations for the battery plants because of their close proximity to Tesla's factory in Austin, Texas.



Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
shavethewhales
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 499


« Reply #223 on: August 27, 2022, 09:45:40 am »

lol what a twist. I will be amazed if we actually get something, but I'm not holding my breath anymore. The state will find a way to screw it up, and even if it gets built it will probably be smaller and have less of an impact than previously touted. Anything built by Panasonic would be awesome for the state and our region though.

I'm sure they want all the previously offered incentives and more though, even if we aren't competing anymore.
Logged
LandArchPoke
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 747



« Reply #224 on: August 27, 2022, 01:12:55 pm »

lol what a twist. I will be amazed if we actually get something, but I'm not holding my breath anymore. The state will find a way to screw it up, and even if it gets built it will probably be smaller and have less of an impact than previously touted. Anything built by Panasonic would be awesome for the state and our region though.

I'm sure they want all the previously offered incentives and more though, even if we aren't competing anymore.

As soon as the rumors started months ago about splitting the facility before the official announcement of locating in Kansas I figured this is what would happen.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a $2 billion investment in both locations and being $4 billion total (even though they are publicly saying $4 billion in each which was the original plan with '1 plant'). I believe the requirements to get the incentives in both Kansas and Oklahoma were minimum investment of $1 billion and 1,000 ish jobs at certain pay levels.

If that's the case why would you not split it and instead of getting $1 billion in incentives for 1 $4 billion plant you're getting nearly $2 billion in incentives for 2, $2 billion plants. Plus you spread out your labor risks - instead of trying to hire 4-5 thousand in one location you are hiring 2 ish thousand in 2 locations. When you're talking this large of scale splitting the facility works, you wouldn't lose much efficiency on construction, labor, operational management, etc. to have two locations versus one and you'd get double the financial incentive benefits.

The Kansas announcement was all to fool people to be honest. It sucked any momentum from the anti-TIF and anti foreign company investment sentiment coming out of a small group... and magically after the county commissioner who started that lost last week and any chance of a TIF challenge past you see this in the press.

 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org