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October 02, 2022, 04:40:23 pm
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Author Topic: Massive new car factory for Pryor  (Read 24029 times)
LandArchPoke
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« Reply #195 on: July 14, 2022, 09:33:16 am »

It doesn't seem to affect Texas, Tennessee, Alabama and other Southern states which are equally right-wing.  Bottom line Oklahoma needs to up its economic development and incentives game.  Continue to build up infrastructure which for many years was woefully behind and still lags surrounding states.  Built-in advantages include a quality manufacturing workforce, reliable and low cost power and water (through GRDA), central location and low cost of living.  In NE Oklahoma there is also the advantage of living in a scenic area near hills, lakes and rivers.

Add in Florida, etc. Between Texas, Tennessee, and Florida they are some of the fastest growing states in terms of business relocation and expansion and they are arguably more right-wing than Oklahoma. Texas barely has a functioning power grid for crying out loud.

It's just a convenient excuse to distract people that companies just don't want to move here because of our state government. I'm not a Republican but I don't think this is something to blame them for things like the abortion ban. At the end of the day corporate America doesn't give a s**t, the money they'd spend to pay for workers to seek medical care elsewhere is far far far less than the tax breaks they get from Republicans. Wether this turns into a recruitment issue I don't know.. it's possible but Oklahoma isn't in any different of a position then Tennessee, Texas, Florida. Frankly Oklahoma will be closer to states with legal abortion than any of those other states. I can assure you that Elon Musk gives zero cares about issues like that, he wanted to be in a conservative state that he didn't have to deal with 'liberal' issues like masks, taxes, and any COVID related shutdowns. They didn't pick Austin because it was the liberal star of Texas it just had the workforce and related industries it needed for an HQ.

The reality is our state just plan sucks as economic development. Tulsa should be running circles around metros like Kansas City. We market ourselves terribly and there is a pervasive attitude even within leadership of our region that Tulsa just isn't deserving of big things and it's not possible here. We've really lost the spirit that is needed to be able to get the types of projects Austin and Nashville were able to land that started their trajectory they are on. For example until Arthur came in at the Chamber our ONLY recruitment efforts were to site location companies. That is so a** backwards is laughable. There is a reason we have been in stagnation for so long it is because we never had anyone actually trying in a manner that made a difference. He even talked about it several times of he didn't understand why we weren't just picking up the phone and calling CEO's to tell them about Tulsa. By the time they are working with site location experts they're already too far down the process to make a difference.

Tulsa has got to pivot and sell it's self better. We are smack in the middle of a region that is growing incredibly fast. I've said it so many times but our recruitment area is much larger than just the MSA. The mobility between regions like Tulsa-NWA, Tulsa-OKC, etc. is not bad. If say a Tesla opened here their immediate recruitment areas extend well beyond Tulsa. Oklahoma City, NWA, Ft. Smith, Joplin, Springfield, Wichita, etc. are all essentially within play to pull workers and we have to take advantage of that and that's a 4-5 million + population area that Tulsa is closer to get to than KC, St. Louis, Dallas, etc. You can easily build out recruitment pipelines from Oklahoma State, Univ of Oklahoma, Wichita State, Univ of Arkansas, Missouri State, etc. There is not a lack of talent in this region, it's just a bit more fragmented than an area like Austin, Denver, Nashville. You can't tell me that a college student at the Univ of Arkansas that was offered a job at a Tesla HQ in Tulsa wouldn't move here? Please. We have assets to leverage we just don't. It's incredibly frustrating.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #196 on: July 14, 2022, 09:37:12 am »

I wouldn't be surprised if Panasonic is splitting the facility.

Why wouldn't they just build a $2-2.5 billion plant in each state instead of one $5 billion plant?

You'd get an extra $1 billion in incentives because the facility sizes are still large enough to qualify for the incentives in both areas...

I wouldn't be surprised if the announcement was meant to destroy the possibility of a legal challenge to the TIF and then once that's past they'll announce something. Like oh hey we decided to build a 'second' facility in the US, when in reality is just a splitting of the original proposal. There's already been hints of that out there. Disappointing for sure, but hopeful that is what is happening behind closed doors.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 10:54:40 am by LandArchPoke » Logged
AdamsHall
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« Reply #197 on: July 14, 2022, 01:27:10 pm »

I wouldn't be surprised if Panasonic is splitting the facility.

Why wouldn't they just build a $2-2.5 billion plant in each state instead of one $5 billion plant?

You'd get an extra $1 billion in incentives because the facility sizes are still large enough to qualify for the incentives in both areas...

I wouldn't be surprised if the announcement was meant to destroy the possibility of a legal challenge to the TIF and then once that's past they'll announce something. Like oh hey we decided to build a 'second' facility in the US, when in reality is just a splitting of the original proposal. There's already been hints of that out there. Disappointing for sure, but hopeful that is what is happening behind closed doors.

You may be correct about the split.  Even if Panasonic doesn't locate a 2nd facility in Pryor, there are other well-heeled suitors that are very interested in placing a similar facility in the that location. 
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tulsabug
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« Reply #198 on: July 14, 2022, 04:10:05 pm »

Add in Florida, etc. Between Texas, Tennessee, and Florida they are some of the fastest growing states in terms of business relocation and expansion and they are arguably more right-wing than Oklahoma. Texas barely has a functioning power grid for crying out loud.

It's just a convenient excuse to distract people that companies just don't want to move here because of our state government. I'm not a Republican but I don't think this is something to blame them for things like the abortion ban. At the end of the day corporate America doesn't give a s**t, the money they'd spend to pay for workers to seek medical care elsewhere is far far far less than the tax breaks they get from Republicans. Wether this turns into a recruitment issue I don't know.. it's possible but Oklahoma isn't in any different of a position then Tennessee, Texas, Florida. Frankly Oklahoma will be closer to states with legal abortion than any of those other states. I can assure you that Elon Musk gives zero cares about issues like that, he wanted to be in a conservative state that he didn't have to deal with 'liberal' issues like masks, taxes, and any COVID related shutdowns. They didn't pick Austin because it was the liberal star of Texas it just had the workforce and related industries it needed for an HQ.

The reality is our state just plan sucks as economic development. Tulsa should be running circles around metros like Kansas City. We market ourselves terribly and there is a pervasive attitude even within leadership of our region that Tulsa just isn't deserving of big things and it's not possible here. We've really lost the spirit that is needed to be able to get the types of projects Austin and Nashville were able to land that started their trajectory they are on. For example until Arthur came in at the Chamber our ONLY recruitment efforts were to site location companies. That is so a** backwards is laughable. There is a reason we have been in stagnation for so long it is because we never had anyone actually trying in a manner that made a difference. He even talked about it several times of he didn't understand why we weren't just picking up the phone and calling CEO's to tell them about Tulsa. By the time they are working with site location experts they're already too far down the process to make a difference.

Tulsa has got to pivot and sell it's self better. We are smack in the middle of a region that is growing incredibly fast. I've said it so many times but our recruitment area is much larger than just the MSA. The mobility between regions like Tulsa-NWA, Tulsa-OKC, etc. is not bad. If say a Tesla opened here their immediate recruitment areas extend well beyond Tulsa. Oklahoma City, NWA, Ft. Smith, Joplin, Springfield, Wichita, etc. are all essentially within play to pull workers and we have to take advantage of that and that's a 4-5 million + population area that Tulsa is closer to get to than KC, St. Louis, Dallas, etc. You can easily build out recruitment pipelines from Oklahoma State, Univ of Oklahoma, Wichita State, Univ of Arkansas, Missouri State, etc. There is not a lack of talent in this region, it's just a bit more fragmented than an area like Austin, Denver, Nashville. You can't tell me that a college student at the Univ of Arkansas that was offered a job at a Tesla HQ in Tulsa wouldn't move here? Please. We have assets to leverage we just don't. It's incredibly frustrating.

Or, you know, it's all of the above. I'm sure Panasonic looked at every angle - you have to when that much money is in play. They had to look at a state that was physically in the right place, was a state where you could find the needed workers plus one where people would be willing to move to, plus tax incentives, and on and on and on. I don't feel bad when we lose to Texas only because they often get things due to location that we can't compete on but, damn, Kansas? And one of the reasons that Panasonic chose Kansas because of it's proximity to Texas? Ouch! We just suck. So it's basically Texas, irrelevant wasteland, and then Kansas. fml
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Tulsan
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« Reply #199 on: July 14, 2022, 08:42:25 pm »

You may be correct about the split.  Even if Panasonic doesn't locate a 2nd facility in Pryor, there are other well-heeled suitors that are very interested in placing a similar facility in the that location. 

This is correct. Someoneís going to be building batteries in Pryor. Thatís why the Governorís office sounds so confidentÖ the combination of hydro power, open land with infrastructure, and state subsidies is too enticing. People need to chill.
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buffalodan
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« Reply #200 on: July 14, 2022, 08:52:10 pm »

So I believe you, but why does the hydropower matter? They have a coal + gas plant right there as well. And I'm pretty sure that coal plant can provide more power than the entire hydro network can.
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Tulsan
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« Reply #201 on: July 14, 2022, 09:56:17 pm »

So I believe you, but why does the hydropower matter? They have a coal + gas plant right there as well. And I'm pretty sure that coal plant can provide more power than the entire hydro network can.

Google ESG. Making batteries can be dirty work and hese companies want to show their shareholders that their massive power-sucking factories are carbon neutral.
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tulsabug
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« Reply #202 on: July 15, 2022, 05:30:55 am »

The Tulsa Regional Chamber of Commerce says Oklahoma's abortion and transgender laws have out-of-state companies choosing to not come to Oklahoma and is causing problems for existing Oklahoma companies looking to hire out-of-state employees.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/state-laws-on-abortion-transgender-issues-have-companies-balking-on-coming-to-oklahoma-development-official/article_a2e516de-039f-11ed-b3a8-a7c7ba3a8b66.html#tracking-source=home-top-story
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tulsabug
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« Reply #203 on: July 15, 2022, 05:40:10 am »

aaaaaand that soulless turd Lankford blocked unanimous consent on a bill guaranteeing the right to interstate travel to have an abortion. So yea - build your factory here where women are not only considered second-class citizens but also can be legally trapped from leaving the state. Maybe we can get "Irrelevant Wasteland" on to our license plates.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/watch-now-oklahoma-sen-lankford-blocks-bill-guaranteeing-interstate-travel-for-abortion/article_25bd0880-03ac-11ed-bb13-c395c0f97687.html
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Rattle Trap
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« Reply #204 on: July 15, 2022, 07:02:05 am »

The Tulsa Regional Chamber of Commerce says Oklahoma's abortion and transgender laws have out-of-state companies choosing to not come to Oklahoma and is causing problems for existing Oklahoma companies looking to hire out-of-state employees.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/state-laws-on-abortion-transgender-issues-have-companies-balking-on-coming-to-oklahoma-development-official/article_a2e516de-039f-11ed-b3a8-a7c7ba3a8b66.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

I promise you at the end of the day no serious company or individual is going to make a decision based on something like an abortion or bathroom law. A multi billion dollar company is not going to approach shareholders to tell them they couldn't expand to "x" state that provided low energy costs, cheap land, renewable energy, and a billion dollars in tax incentives just because said state has certain social law.

The housing market here hasn't slown down at all. You know who is buying these houses? People from other states. 30 year old doctors, 20 year old engineers, etc. All come here because they can buy big houses for half the price of what they'd pay elsewhere. Inflation is historic and people's main goal is to find a way or place they can afford to live comfortably.

Also, if a few companies bail out because our state no longer allows infanticide to be legal, then so be it.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #205 on: July 15, 2022, 08:59:55 am »

I promise you at the end of the day no serious company or individual is going to make a decision based on something like an abortion or bathroom law. A multi billion dollar company is not going to approach shareholders to tell them they couldn't expand to "x" state that provided low energy costs, cheap land, renewable energy, and a billion dollars in tax incentives just because said state has certain social law.

The housing market here hasn't slown down at all. You know who is buying these houses? People from other states. 30 year old doctors, 20 year old engineers, etc. All come here because they can buy big houses for half the price of what they'd pay elsewhere. Inflation is historic and people's main goal is to find a way or place they can afford to live comfortably.

Also, if a few companies bail out because our state no longer allows infanticide to be legal, then so be it.


Doesn't matter to them if they can buy half price house.  When they are making 1/4 price wages.

More of the ones moving here are mid level people, a few years older than that, who had the good luck to find a job here or their company moved them here to a smaller branch facility.  And most of the places they come from, they have cashed out of a mid-sized house and find they can buy a McMansion here for that money.

And  then you have the absolute Clown Show of Stitt, Lankford, Inhofe, Mullin, Dahm...  

I guess if they like criminal activity, they would move here to be close to Stitt.  

If they feel that 13 is the proper age of consent for sex, they would love having their young daughters around Lankford's culture.  


And let's not forget turnpikes - even though we love to deny it, they are just one more factor in avoiding Oklahoma.  If you ever get the chance to talk to a bunch of truckers, you will be amazed how many will literally drive around OK just to avoid turnpike tolls.    And yeah, even with the higher diesel, there are some good alternate routes to OK turnpikes.

You are deluding yourself if you think these things don't enter into it - even if the C-suite could care less, they will have worker bees who do care about stuff like that.   Plus a lot of these potential companies already have some presence in the state and there is information interchange going on all the time between locals and national people.  We are considered, at best, a quiet little backwater with low wages, government that is friendly, but really is a dead-end with nothing to do.  Just look at the type of conventions and conferences we get.  Versus places with "big" attractions.


And if you still believe, "A multi billion dollar company is not going to approach shareholders to tell them they couldn't expand to "x" state that provided low energy costs, cheap land, renewable energy, and a billion dollars in tax incentives just because said state has certain social law."...

Then why do you think it ain't happening??
 


« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 09:13:39 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

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« Reply #206 on: July 15, 2022, 09:11:27 am »


Add in Florida, etc. Between Texas, Tennessee, and Florida they are some of the fastest growing states in terms of business relocation and expansion and they are arguably more right-wing than Oklahoma. Texas barely has a functioning power grid for crying out loud.

The reality is our state just plan sucks as economic development.




Don't forget we have nothing comparable to the attractions that each of those has. 

TX.  Austin, Dallas, Houston.  Six Flags!!   And while their grid sucks, it does have 25% (and growing) coming from wind so it will improve - in spite of their sorry state government.


TN.  Music!  Everywhere!   And the most visited National Park in the US.


FL.  The Mouse.   At least for now...maybe we can get Disney World to move here!!??   And beaches!


And if you were somewhere in the US, including here in OK, and were hosting a conference...where would you go??  Tulsa?  OKC?   Or somewhere like Orlando, Anaheim, Dallas, Austin?  Nashville! 



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
tulsabug
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« Reply #207 on: July 15, 2022, 10:45:25 am »

Yea - I have a hard time showing any reason to actually put something in Oklahoma as opposed to anywhere else. Yes other states have some of the same problems and batshiat crazy government officials but none seem to put it altogether like a nice little fruit basket with a bow on top like Oklahoma does. Let's be totally honest here - the only use large businesses have for Oklahoma is to get counter-bids so they have something to play against in the state they actually want to put their factory. That being said I can't imagine they can even use us for that for much longer - people are gonna wise-up. "Oklahoma is offering an incentive package to you? Who would want to put a factory in that irrelevant wasteland? Nobody does!"

Tulsa and OKC just need to scrap the suburbs and then break away from Oklahoma - become East and West Sequoyah.



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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #208 on: July 15, 2022, 11:37:04 am »

Yea - I have a hard time showing any reason to actually put something in Oklahoma as opposed to anywhere else. Yes other states have some of the same problems and batshiat crazy government officials but none seem to put it altogether like a nice little fruit basket with a bow on top like Oklahoma does. Let's be totally honest here - the only use large businesses have for Oklahoma is to get counter-bids so they have something to play against in the state they actually want to put their factory. That being said I can't imagine they can even use us for that for much longer - people are gonna wise-up. "Oklahoma is offering an incentive package to you? Who would want to put a factory in that irrelevant wasteland? Nobody does!"

Tulsa and OKC just need to scrap the suburbs and then break away from Oklahoma - become East and West Sequoyah.





I get people feel this way... but I mean come on do you really think Oklahoma is that much worse than say Kansas? What about Arkansas, Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, etc. You think Huckabee is going to be less embarrassing than Stitt? Frankly I'd take Stitt over her any day, he at least runs a business even though he's corrupt. I think this election cycle's races in Oklahoma are going to be closer than many think and I hope Dems/Ind. actually go vote and we get someone like Joy, etc. in as leadership to counter the legislature a bit. People just need to stop bemoaning themselves and go vote.  

Dallas has absolutely nothing interesting to offer, it's that decades ago they made better infrastructure investments than Tulsa/OKC did with building DFW and other things. I get if someone picks Denver for the mountains or say Florida because of the ocean/beach but what does Dallas offer that Tulsa couldn't recreate? Nothing. I can assure you that after living there for a while. Frankly Dallas is probably 40% Oklahomans who would rather move back if they could and could keep their job.

Back prior to DFW, etc. Tulsa and Dallas weren't on too different of trajectories we just stopped investing in ourselves. They made critical upgrades that allowed DFW to become a hub and it wasn't really until about 10-ish years ago that they really started to be able to pick off headquarters and major expansions. DFW used to be considered the 'back office headquarters of america'. They slowly built up a workforce through that even if it wasn't fancy, expanded universities, and built up infrastructure like DFW and hit a tipping point and now it's a waterfall. Dallas isn't an interesting or great city, their leadership put in the work to get them to this point and were incredibly aggressive in business expansions/relocation. Dallas was turned down on many occasions for big expansions over the decades and each time that happened they learned from it. Something Tulsa has yet to really do - I can assure you it has nothing to do with our Republican leadership and how embarrassing they are because they're all over the US, Oklahoma is not unique in that. Dallas even had a committee set up after Amazon to figure out how to not let that happen again. A city/region that has a new HQ relocation every month it seems still cared enough to look at what they don't have that Amazon passed them over for Virginia and are making strategic action items to fix those deficiencies now. I can bet you Tulsa/regional leadership isn't doing that with Panasonic, Tesla, etc. People know what we need to do, but there's no strategic plan/action items to get everyone on the same boat. It's pretty much GKFF doing whatever they want, but at some point everyone has to get on the boat and row the same way.  

I still believe the biggest barrier to Tulsa succeeding is the mindset of not thinking big enough and general apathy amongst our population. We market ourselves poorly and we are not aggressive enough in business recruitment. That is 100% of the reason we are getting passed over.

Frankly it wouldn't take very long for Oklahoma to become a battle ground state if we could land a handful of good corporate expansions. The Dem/Independent voter difference to Republicans is not as large as many would think, it's just than voter turnout and excitement especially for non-Republicans is awful. That's been by design on the Republican side.

Heck, Boebert in Colorado is 10x more of an embarrassment than any single one of our national leadership and Colorado is a 'liberal mecca' - I don't think she is scaring off investment in Colorado lol. Same reason Lankford or any of our other embarrassments aren't either. Colorado wasn't that different than Oklahoma back 20 years ago until Denver exploded in population and shifted the entire state from red, to purple, to now mostly solid blue. How was Denver able to recruit so many to move there even with crazy leadership back in the day? If someone really wanted to California, Seattle, etc. were all way more liberal and offered mountains and ocean. Denver built a massive airport and made major investments in infrastructure, universities, etc. and look at where they are now. The amount of people that lived in the front range back then wasn't bigger than the I-44/412 corridor from OKC-Tulsa-NWA now. Denver just decided it was going to be the hub of the region, and until Tulsa decides to get off it's donkey and be the hub and make investments we are just going to keep getting passed by and have OKC/NWA eat our lunch with the group who are willing to invest in this region. 

Corporate America does not care about politics what so ever. If they did, why are they still donating so much to the Republican party? Toyota is one of the biggest donors to the insurrections now and they're HQed in Plano. You think they care? Nope. So our politics didn't scare Toyota USA HQ away from Oklahoma I can assure you that. They definitely didn't pick Plano or Dallas because it's some liberal mecca either. There is a specific recruitment team in Collin County that goes to California and other states to tell CEO's about Jesus and how Collin County has the best churches and is God's suburban paradise - I'm not joking. Yet if something like that happened in Oklahoma people who claim it's running off business investment. It's not.

Our issues are not political no matter how embarrassing they are in this state. Until we focus on the issues that are actually causing us to get passed over we'll be stuck in the same spot for another decade or two.  
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 11:45:08 am by LandArchPoke » Logged
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« Reply #209 on: July 15, 2022, 01:11:32 pm »

^ Good points.  As I said before Tulsa needs to just keep investing in the things we are already investing in to keep the momentum that has already been building and weíll land one of these big developments.   
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