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August 13, 2022, 04:24:48 pm
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Author Topic: Massive new car factory for Pryor  (Read 19843 times)
Jake
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« Reply #135 on: May 11, 2022, 10:51:02 am »

If the state somehow botches the Panasonic factory...
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #136 on: May 11, 2022, 11:02:03 am »

Oh man - running out of money! If only someone had seen this coming! Wait - I did on page 2 of this thread in June of 2021.

My only hope for the long-term survival of Canoo came when I found out GKFF became investors. Granted Solyndra was a disaster for them and this could be that 2.0, but I have a feeling Canoo will probably file bankruptcy and reorganize and GKFF and other investors will end up taking over and with far less bad debt. Who knows though.

If the state somehow botches the Panasonic factory...

Well Stitt and the other Republicans were too busy passing a bunch of ridiculous laws instead of getting the economic package passed. Kansas did it first thing they could and we kicked the can down the road until they got pissed off.

My guess is they aren't going to make a public announcement until after the deadline for the TIF petition filing deadline. I doubt it will be successful but they are probably not wanting to antagonize or add fuel to the fire. They can still be working on plans and moving forward without the public announcement. If they were going to pick Kansas we would have heard an announcement by now.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #137 on: May 11, 2022, 12:23:43 pm »

This is not looking good:

                        

Canoo CEO warns company could go out business before a single car is made in Pryor:  https://news.yahoo.com/canoo-ceo-warns-company-could-155946217.html


This is a misunderstanding of how financial statements work. Canoo has always burned cash and has never generated revenue to my knowledge, and certainly has never posted a profit. Therefore, they rely on their ability to acquire debt and/or issue equity to fund their continued operations. Any company operating thusly is pretty much required to have those kind of statements in their financial statements. There's always the possibility that the market turns sour (like what is happening now) and the ability of these fledgling companies to keep getting money until they can actually start making revenue will dry up.

That being said, Canoo is a long ways away from meaningful production, and they are burning cash quickly while they get off the ground. They have a bad strategy and an arguably unappealing product. To make things worse, they keep losing senior people and the CEO's compensation is suspect. If they were JUST burning money in pursuit of their goals I wouldn't be worried, because that is typical with this stage of a massive start-up. It's the loss of senior people and failure to come up with an appealing design that really spells trouble.

I hope it somehow works out, but with the markets turning ugly they have a high chance of getting flushed. Back in 2019 or so they could have still made it just because the bull market made getting funding easy.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #138 on: May 11, 2022, 01:20:56 pm »

This is a misunderstanding of how financial statements work. Canoo has always burned cash and has never generated revenue to my knowledge, and certainly has never posted a profit. Therefore, they rely on their ability to acquire debt and/or issue equity to fund their continued operations. Any company operating thusly is pretty much required to have those kind of statements in their financial statements. There's always the possibility that the market turns sour (like what is happening now) and the ability of these fledgling companies to keep getting money until they can actually start making revenue will dry up.

That being said, Canoo is a long ways away from meaningful production, and they are burning cash quickly while they get off the ground. They have a bad strategy and an arguably unappealing product. To make things worse, they keep losing senior people and the CEO's compensation is suspect. If they were JUST burning money in pursuit of their goals I wouldn't be worried, because that is typical with this stage of a massive start-up. It's the loss of senior people and failure to come up with an appealing design that really spells trouble.

I hope it somehow works out, but with the markets turning ugly they have a high chance of getting flushed. Back in 2019 or so they could have still made it just because the bull market made getting funding easy.

In the ordinary cases you mention, they never say that their continuation is "doubtful." It's a major red flag. My friends and I always thought it smelled a bit like a fluke of a company that would never make it, and I hate to see it might be going that way. I see very little about this company on any major national business media. Never really felt like a legitimate startup. The governor, of course, will face no repercussions as long as he continues effing with Indian tribes and throwing out national red meat.
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tulsabug
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« Reply #139 on: May 11, 2022, 04:35:27 pm »

This is a misunderstanding of how financial statements work. Canoo has always burned cash and has never generated revenue to my knowledge, and certainly has never posted a profit. Therefore, they rely on their ability to acquire debt and/or issue equity to fund their continued operations. Any company operating thusly is pretty much required to have those kind of statements in their financial statements. There's always the possibility that the market turns sour (like what is happening now) and the ability of these fledgling companies to keep getting money until they can actually start making revenue will dry up.

That being said, Canoo is a long ways away from meaningful production, and they are burning cash quickly while they get off the ground. They have a bad strategy and an arguably unappealing product. To make things worse, they keep losing senior people and the CEO's compensation is suspect. If they were JUST burning money in pursuit of their goals I wouldn't be worried, because that is typical with this stage of a massive start-up. It's the loss of senior people and failure to come up with an appealing design that really spells trouble.

I hope it somehow works out, but with the markets turning ugly they have a high chance of getting flushed. Back in 2019 or so they could have still made it just because the bull market made getting funding easy.

This company has been a clusterfark from day one when it basically morphed from another failing EV company. In it's defense however, Tesla builds some ugly cars too. I think in the end all these independent electric car companies are gonna be goners (Tesla included) but it'll be fun to watch the carnage while it lasts.
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Laramie
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« Reply #140 on: May 12, 2022, 09:01:22 am »

As much as many of us are rooting for this multi-million plant for Pryor, Canoo's track record doesn't look that promising.

The State has money thru the Quality Jobs Program; however until Canoo can show that they are legit and not depending on OPMs  
it's beginning to look bleak.

Hope we can secure the Panasonic Battery Plant; that will be a 'win' for the State and a 'good get' for Tulsa.  Panasonic has an
agreement to supply batteries for Canoo's EV, there's weight on Canoo tied to Panasonic.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 09:10:25 am by Laramie » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #141 on: May 12, 2022, 10:34:18 am »

Canoo has always looked like a pyramid scheme of some sort.  By this point, even a small prototype plant could have been put together somewhere and started cranking out real product.  What have they made?  Something like 40-45 cars?   One of the TV show car places like Gas Monkey or Count's Customs could have done better.  And spent a LOT less money doing it!


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« Reply #142 on: May 15, 2022, 10:54:04 pm »

Now this would be an interesting development.  Imagine both Apple and Google in Pryor

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-looks-to-acquire-the-start-up-Canoo-to-bolster-its-e-vehicle-division.619827.0.html
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swake
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« Reply #143 on: May 15, 2022, 11:09:24 pm »

Now this would be an interesting development.  Imagine both Apple and Google in Pryor

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-looks-to-acquire-the-start-up-Canoo-to-bolster-its-e-vehicle-division.619827.0.html

Bring in an AWS data center and have the trifecta.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #144 on: May 15, 2022, 11:26:13 pm »

Now this would be an interesting development.  Imagine both Apple and Google in Pryor

They would probably build at the other end of the airport and then complain about the airplanes.

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shavethewhales
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« Reply #145 on: May 16, 2022, 07:33:38 am »

That would be a beautiful plot twist... except that may mean their plans for the Pryor plant would be scrapped. Canoo is already too spread out. It's like they courted both AR and OK and couldn't pick one so they tried to make us both happy - or maybe just maximize the free tax money handouts. Not sure what apple would do with the company if they got it. OK has a pretty sweet deal already signed, so maybe they would tilt things in our favor for the production plant at least? Not sure what AR offered them.
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SXSW
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« Reply #146 on: May 16, 2022, 08:09:02 am »

That would be a beautiful plot twist... except that may mean their plans for the Pryor plant would be scrapped. Canoo is already too spread out. It's like they courted both AR and OK and couldn't pick one so they tried to make us both happy - or maybe just maximize the free tax money handouts. Not sure what apple would do with the company if they got it. OK has a pretty sweet deal already signed, so maybe they would tilt things in our favor for the production plant at least? Not sure what AR offered them.

Depends on how involved Wal-Mart is in any new deal with Canoo/Apple.  The plan was always to have the "mega micro plant" in Pryor and a smaller facility in Bentonville.  HQ in Bentonville and R&D in Tulsa.  Panasonic would be the lynchpin, if they are building at Mid-America and assuming they are still using their batteries it makes sense to keep the production there and benefit from all the incentives.  Most of the R&D stays in Cupertino but maybe some engineering support can still be located in Tulsa.  There is a great new office building waiting for them at Cameron & Detroit.   Smiley
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #147 on: May 16, 2022, 07:25:55 pm »

The Tulsa region has been on the bad end of things so many times on big deals hopefully these is our time for some good luck. Would be awesome to have Apple in the region - the further along the factory in Pryor gets the less likely they'd consolidate staff in California. It'd be too valuable of a site to get rid of if the factory had substantial progress made. Makes even more sense with Panasonic there too - would be a great partnership for Apple on EV development.
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Laramie
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« Reply #148 on: May 18, 2022, 03:20:55 pm »

The Tulsa region has been on the bad end of things so many times on big deals hopefully these is our time for some good luck. Would be awesome to have Apple in the region - the further along the factory in Pryor gets the less likely they'd consolidate staff in California. It'd be too valuable of a site to get rid of if the factory had substantial progress made. Makes even more sense with Panasonic there too - would be a great partnership for Apple on EV development.

Rumor | Apple looks to acquire the start-up Canoo to bolster its e-vehicle division:  https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-looks-to-acquire-the-start-up-Canoo-to-bolster-its-e-vehicle-division.619827.0.html


If Apple were to acquire Canoo, you don't have to concern yourself with Tulsa area being on the bad end of anything.   The 'capital' will be there and the proposals from the state will kick in.  Fingers crossed.

If Apple were to get involved that would solidify Canoo's portfolio with the capital to back up Canoo investment and the State of Oklahoma
would be more willing to release whatever funds are needed to bring those jobs to Oklahoma.

Governor Kevin Stitt is looking for a 'win' following the Swadley's debacle and the complete fall-out he has had with the tribes. Predict Stitt
will have trouble getting re-elected.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 03:31:40 pm by Laramie » Logged

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tulsabug
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« Reply #149 on: May 19, 2022, 04:35:24 am »

Rumor | Apple looks to acquire the start-up Canoo to bolster its e-vehicle division:  https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-looks-to-acquire-the-start-up-Canoo-to-bolster-its-e-vehicle-division.619827.0.html


If Apple were to acquire Canoo, you don't have to concern yourself with Tulsa area being on the bad end of anything.   The 'capital' will be there and the proposals from the state will kick in.  Fingers crossed.

If Apple were to get involved that would solidify Canoo's portfolio with the capital to back up Canoo investment and the State of Oklahoma
would be more willing to release whatever funds are needed to bring those jobs to Oklahoma.

Governor Kevin Stitt is looking for a 'win' following the Swadley's debacle and the complete fall-out he has had with the tribes. Predict Stitt
will have trouble getting re-elected.



If Apple is smart, and they are, they'll let Canoo declare bankruptcy and then buy them out of that so they don't have to assume any debt.

I hope Stitt gets kicked to the curb but I'm sure if that happens this state will just find a way to elect another incompetent idiot with delusions of grandeur.
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