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December 05, 2022, 11:49:26 am
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Author Topic: Will there ever be an expressway going through the city of Bixby in the future?  (Read 9021 times)
MostSeriousness
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2019, 07:27:03 am »


You never go out past about 21st and Peoria?? 

It's a shared experience that does actually benefit all.  If you go by that logic, then downtown should receive the smallest bit of support from taxes, since it is what, maybe 3 or 4% of our metro land area?   Or maybe should just put a toll booth at 21st for anyone leaving town....


Not trying to go off on a tangent too much, but according to https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/analysis-downtown-tulsa-accounts-07-city-land-20-sales-tax-collections, Downtown is closer to half a percentage of the metro land area
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2019, 12:28:59 pm »

Not trying to go off on a tangent too much, but according to https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/analysis-downtown-tulsa-accounts-07-city-land-20-sales-tax-collections, Downtown is closer to half a percentage of the metro land area


That article stopped downtown at the inner dispersal loop.  I was giving it too big an area...

Am very curious about those offsets from business' with locations outside the loop.  Can't think of all of them now, but Coney Islander would be prime example - they gotta have some decent sales tax reporting with only one store downtown, but a whole bunch more outside the loop.  Since those numbers are all lumped together, that 20% is probably a little high.

And there is also massive blocks of land (my neighborhood for example) where there are no sales taxes, but the land makes up huge amount of metro area.  Can't see a great way to compare those things - apples and soybeans comparison...

We don't want to end up getting locally polarized by downtown/suburb isolationism, though.  I feel the 71st street bridge brought at the very least indirect benefit to me, so no complaint about it, even though it is far away and I virtually never cross it.  Same thing with Bixby - needs better access there.  But we have the same problem as our overall infrastructure issues -  growth for growth's sake with no regard for how to maintain/support it in the future.  And I know the running joke is, "that's a long ways off so we won't have to worry about it..."



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2019, 12:42:53 pm »

Loosely tied to the idea of making stuff...I was looking around for architect this morning and found the TFA Tulsa Foundation for Architecture.  And the first link caught my eye - interesting article and the drawing from 1942 resonated.  Will be checking in from time to time to see if they are selling prints yet.

https://tulsaarchitecture.org/from-the-tfa-archives-tulsa-contributes-to-the-nation/


They also have another page that I can't find again that shows the result of Tulsa's Insanity over urban renewal.  It toggles back and forth between 1978 when most of the original buildings remained looking up Main, I think.  And 2005 when our "growth for growth's sake" obsession had decimated many of the old buildings and gave us such a wonderful landscape of parking lots!   Good work, Tulsa!



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Okie1986
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2022, 06:25:51 am »

Here is more news regarding the fastly growing suburb of Bixby. As of May of 2022, the city of Bixby has a $30 million dollar development in downtown. (Their biggest development planned ever at the moment. Expect more of these in the near future after this is done with construction) The project will be along 151st street and Memorial behind the CVS Pharmacy. The development will include 150 luxury apartments which will have 4 additional stories. It will include a workout facility and a pool. On the ground level, there will be 15,000 sq ft of retail and a 300 car parking car garage. This will be a major development for Bixby and expect things to grow exponentially especially downtown in the next 5-10 years which will look extremely different than it is now. Here is a link to the story with renderings:

https://www.newson6.com/story/62798c7aeaecee07218f87d7/bixby-announces-major-downtown-development-announcement-

Also to keep a note, the city of Bixby passed a $110 million bond issue to build and improve the High school (With upgrades to their athletic facilities as well including the increase of the football stadium capacity). This is a sign that the suburb is growing rapidly, and only to see the suburbs' stock rise in the next couple of decades.

https://www.krmg.com/news/bixby-parents-vote-110-million-bond-build-new-high-school-academic-building/MBKSB3U4VFHUTGUDGQ54C6YZBU/

Here are the renderings of the new High school academic building:

https://kktarchitects.com/projects/bixby-high-school-academic-building/
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swake
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2022, 12:48:23 pm »

The pointless Gilcrease loop under construction in west Tulsa should have been built as a turnpike connecting 151st to the southwest corner of the Creek turnpike around south Broken Arrow. But that ship has sailed and with more and more houses built in that potential path and the money spent on Gilcrease.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2022, 01:58:08 pm »

The pointless Gilcrease loop under construction in west Tulsa should have been built as a turnpike connecting 151st to the southwest corner of the Creek turnpike around south Broken Arrow. But that ship has sailed and with more and more houses built in that potential path and the money spent on Gilcrease.

JMO, build it from Kellyville to the Creek at the curve at 121st between County Line and 209th E Ave or run it out to Coweta with a connection to Hwy 51 as well as the Muskogee Turnpike.
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Okie1986
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2022, 03:42:08 pm »

I agree, south of Tulsa is where we will see most of the rapid growth in the next couple of decades besides Owasso. I think creating a tollway connecting I-44 then wraps around sapulpa through glendpool and Bixby, cross the River and connect to the turnpike would be great. Sadly, Oklahoma seems to take forever on infrastructure unlike if this were in Texas would be considered much faster. Weíll just have to see these coming decades as the metro population shifts southward.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2022, 02:21:06 pm »

I think creating a tollway connecting I-44 then wraps around sapulpa through glendpool and Bixby, cross the River and connect to the turnpike would be great.

There needs to be a nation-wide "Pike Pass".  The Plate Pay fees are absurd, in spite of what the OTA says.  But, it's not just Oklahoma.  I looked at driving to NJ, just east of Philadelphia to visit some friends and the few relatives still in the area. The PA Turnpike toll is about $30 with EZ Pass.  It's about $60 with the Plate Pay.  I could take a route that avoids the PA Turnpike and, according to Google Maps, only takes about an hour longer and 50 more miles. Gas and wear and tear on the car would probably be worth $30 but $60 is pushing  the limit.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2022, 05:45:17 pm »

Out of curiosity, I looked up the toll calculator and planned a route using the Kilpatrick from west of OKC to the Turner & I-35 and was floored by the price difference between toll tag and plate pay. Brings a new meaning to highway robbery to charge double the price.

As much as California gouges people, the price difference between plate pay and toll tag is on average a dollar, although they have different rates for different times of day.

https://www.thetollroads.com/tolls/toll-calculator/

https://www.bayareafastrak.org/en/about/pay-tolls-violations.shtml

I got a CA FasTrak pass when I lived in Oregon since I traveled through CA quite a bit. I mainly used it for the bridges in San Francisco and the Express Lanes on I-680 and I-580.

A national tag would be great, but getting 20 some odd turnpike authorities to agree on one system is doubtful, which is surprising since OTR truckers have ID transponders for truck scales where they actually weigh the truck while it's moving.

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Red Arrow
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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2022, 06:30:45 pm »

Out of curiosity, I looked up the toll calculator and planned a route using the Kilpatrick from west of OKC to the Turner & I-35 and was floored by the price difference between toll tag and plate pay.

My sister lives in New Mexico.  I got a portable (suction cup type, not the permanent sticker) Pike Pass for her for when she visits.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2022, 08:01:46 pm »

A national tag would be great, but getting 20 some odd turnpike authorities to agree on one system is doubtful, which is surprising since OTR truckers have ID transponders for truck scales where they actually weigh the truck while it's moving.

I am not advocating the tag become a federal thing.  I believe a national standard for the transponders is in order.  That way any state could bill the tag holder's own state.  That would negate the claim of the time and effort to trace a license plate.  As much as I dislike Federal mandates, the Feds could say to use the new standard or loose federal funding for highways.  I expect OK would resist at first claiming some sort of personal or states' rights freedom BS.  We do have a LOT of national standards such as a mile is 5280 ft. (Nautical miles are 6076.115 ft (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nautical+mile&t=h_&ia=answer)), an inch is 25.4 mm, a 1/4-20 bolt made in OK will accept a 1/4-20 nut made in TN and so on.

The tax on gasoline/diesel fuel worked reasonably well when cars got 12 MPG, not so much with 30+ MPG cars, even worse with electric vehicles.  We probably have some rethinking to do on how to pay for roads.  Any form of public transit using public roads needs to pay its fair share of road maintenance/construction.  I'm not against some subsidies for public transit but those subsidies need to feed the road costs directly.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2022, 10:54:28 pm »

I was thinking the same about the transponder. Make them programmable to identify the user and charge the users account what ever the toll is. I'm not a big fan of plate pay, that's why I still have my FasTrak transponder for California.

As for gas/diesel taxes to pay for roads, Arizona got smart back in the mid 80's and proposed and passed by the voters a half cent sales tax specifically for transportation, highways/arterial streets/public transportation. It comes up for renewal every 20 years, and was passed by the voters in 2004 without issue, and is coming up for renewal again in 2024 and sounds like it will pass again.
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swake
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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2022, 10:58:13 pm »

The federal government has required interoperability since 2016. It has just never worked. It works regionally now, but not nationwide.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2022, 11:35:27 pm »

The federal government has required interoperability since 2016. It has just never worked. It works regionally now, but not nationwide.

I seem to remember reading about that here a few years ago in a discussion about using the Oklahoma Pike Pass on the North Dallas Tollway and vice versa.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2022, 09:10:34 am »

Here is more news regarding the fastly growing suburb of Bixby. As of May of 2022, the city of Bixby has a $30 million dollar development in downtown. (Their biggest development planned ever at the moment. Expect more of these in the near future after this is done with construction) The project will be along 151st street and Memorial behind the CVS Pharmacy. The development will include 150 luxury apartments which will have 4 additional stories. It will include a workout facility and a pool. On the ground level, there will be 15,000 sq ft of retail and a 300 car parking car garage. This will be a major development for Bixby and expect things to grow exponentially especially downtown in the next 5-10 years which will look extremely different than it is now. Here is a link to the story with renderings:

https://www.newson6.com/story/62798c7aeaecee07218f87d7/bixby-announces-major-downtown-development-announcement-

Also to keep a note, the city of Bixby passed a $110 million bond issue to build and improve the High school (With upgrades to their athletic facilities as well including the increase of the football stadium capacity). This is a sign that the suburb is growing rapidly, and only to see the suburbs' stock rise in the next couple of decades.

https://www.krmg.com/news/bixby-parents-vote-110-million-bond-build-new-high-school-academic-building/MBKSB3U4VFHUTGUDGQ54C6YZBU/

Here are the renderings of the new High school academic building:

https://kktarchitects.com/projects/bixby-high-school-academic-building/

What a horrifically boring looking development. Like they went to the store where Plano, TX gets their development plans and bought the generic off-brand version. And I will reiterate, don't expect me to pay taxes to make your environment destroying commute easier. I'll never understand why suburban sprawl is "cheap" for homebuyers. The economics make no sense, everyone else pays for the infrastructure to their oversized balsa wood tinker toy houses. Yes, I find it very annoying.
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