A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
February 27, 2020, 10:35:56 am
Pages: 1 ... 39 40 [41] 42 43 ... 45   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: OKC stuff (formerly IKEA rumor)  (Read 77020 times)
Oil Capital
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1154


WWW
« Reply #600 on: January 28, 2020, 12:11:33 pm »


Here are a couple of easy to find comments I ran across - guess we will see what a Federal court has to say.  Maybe they can arbitrate a negotiation, too. That's probably where it should be anyway.

Under the gaming compact, the records show “the compact will expire January 1, 2020, but will automatically renew for 15 years.”

The senate summary from the same year reads, Senate Bill 1252: “provides that the compact shall expire January 1, 2020 but will be automatically renewed for fifteen years.”

“If it wasn’t intended to renew there wouldn’t be a clause that specifically says ‘shall automatically renew’”, Atty Stephen Greetham comment.

Text of enrolled Senate Bill 1252 here, part way down the page;  
https://www.news9.com/story/41570013/house-senate-records-show-gaming-compacts-automatically-renew

Near the end of Section 22.



Commentary;

Bottom line; this is Stitt grandstanding, of course, since that is all he's got.  Well, in addition to his business "prowess" that got his company banned for life doing business in Georgia.  We do love our "bad boys of business" in this country.  Lies, deception, thievery, graft, corruption...it's what we celebrate and elevate from our sleepy little 'backwater' here all the way to the top reaches of the Federal government.

And trying to divert attention from the FACT that his record on education is just as bad as the previous regime.   Leaving our kids twisting in the breeze.  Again.   And we wonder why population growth is relatively stagnant.  And 'big companies' with high paying jobs don't come swarming in?  

Not even touching on infrastructure.







Did you overlook the part that allows either party to initiate the renegotiation of certain terms?
Logged

 
BKDotCom
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2506



WWW
« Reply #601 on: January 28, 2020, 12:47:34 pm »

What does this have to do with IKEA???
Logged
Laramie
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 693



« Reply #602 on: January 28, 2020, 01:14:07 pm »


Work continues on the interior as well as the exterior of the Oklahoma State Capitol building. 
Pic via Oklahoman, January 28, 2020
Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
Laramie
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 693



« Reply #603 on: January 28, 2020, 02:27:29 pm »

A Pedestrian way is proposed for the new Oklahoma City convention center.

The Oklahoma City MAPS 3 Citizen Advisory Board voted to move forward with preliminary plans for a $4 million pedestrian walkway to be constructed between the new convention center, the Omni Hotel and parking garage.

Here are some pics via OKCTalk.com:




The parking garage is under construction; 1,100 spaces will be available on 6 levels (includes basement) to give priority parking to the convention center, Omni Hotel, Fairfield & Boulevard Place.  The garage is expected to be completed by June 2020.


Canopies align the 4th Street experience of the Pedestrian Walkway.



The canopies will align the convention center side as well as the Omni Hotel side.

Omni has an option clause giving them 1st rights development of the Cox Convention Center (Old Myriad site) if a hotel is part of development once the 4-square block site is cleared. The City & Omni has plans to use it as a backup in case the convention center complex (Omni Hotel, OKC CC) needs more space.

The new convention center & garage both can be expanded; it will create a demand for alternative hotel space for the nearby Sheraton (395 rooms), Renaissance (311 rooms), Hilton-Skirvin (225), Courtyard by Marriott (225), Fairfield (133 rooms)  and the 150 room 5 star First National Center to be used in conjunction with a large convention core.  Those hotels currently have a 68% occupancy rate; the new convention center will elevate OKC to a higher tier to compete for more conventions among area competitive cities like Fort Worth, Memphis, Little Rock, Tulsa, Wichita & Amarillo.

Oklahoma City have already signed contract into 2024 for 8 conventions with a potential $20 million economic impact on the local industry.  Oklahoma City Omni will be tagged as the City's convention center hotel.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 02:55:54 pm by Laramie » Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
Laramie
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 693



« Reply #604 on: January 28, 2020, 03:25:49 pm »


The new crown on BancFirst Tower will add more height to the city's second tallest structure.  Anticipate the new LED crown lighting for the tower which will illuminate the Oklahoma City Skyline--a real skyline game-changer.

BancFirst Tower reskin, construction & restoration update--all pics via OKCTalk.com.


Several columns are removed; apparently these columns are more decorative than support, they do provide some support to some areas, just not the bulk support of the structure.





« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 03:34:45 pm by Laramie » Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1225



« Reply #605 on: January 28, 2020, 03:50:22 pm »


Here are a couple of easy to find comments I ran across - guess we will see what a Federal court has to say.  Maybe they can arbitrate a negotiation, too. That's probably where it should be anyway.

Under the gaming compact, the records show “the compact will expire January 1, 2020, but will automatically renew for 15 years.

The senate summary from the same year reads, Senate Bill 1252: “provides that the compact shall expire January 1, 2020 but will be automatically renewed for fifteen years.”

“If it wasn’t intended to renew there wouldn’t be a clause that specifically says ‘shall automatically renew’”, Atty Stephen Greetham comment.

Text of enrolled Senate Bill 1252 here, part way down the page;  
https://www.news9.com/story/41570013/house-senate-records-show-gaming-compacts-automatically-renew

Near the end of Section 22.



The article conveniently leaves out the sentence directly after that one:
Quote
Provides that the compact shall expire January 1, 2020, but will be
automatically renewed for fifteen years. Allows the fees and penalties to be
renegotiated at that time.

The tribes are providing a poor argument. Using the same logic, why would it "expire" if it were to continue as-is? Why wouldn't they write it as indefinite or as a 30 year pact if that were the intent?

The double-think here is concerning. It seems many uninformed people are against Stitt in this, but renegotiation by 01/01/2020 were the original intent of the bill. If you have issue with that, than take it up with the originators of the bill and the tribes for not following the spirit and the letter of the pact. Sure it is poorly worded, but you don't have to be a genius or lawyer to understand that.

This is a case where Governor Stitt is correct and they should renegotiate. If the tribes want to keep their state-mandated monopoly on gaming in the state, they need to be willing to at least negotiate. Otherwise, it is time to open up the rest of the state to free market gaming. The win-win is when the tribes accept slightly higher fees in exchange for a slew of new gaming options. That could drastically increase the revenue for both parties.
Logged
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1225



« Reply #606 on: January 28, 2020, 04:21:52 pm »

Here's the part in question from the tribal gaming compact:

Quote
B. This Compact shall have a term which will expire on January 1, 2020, and at that time, if
organization licensees or others are authorized to conduct electronic gaming in any form other
than pari-mutuel wagering on live horse racing pursuant to any governmental action of the state
or court order following the effective date of this Compact, the Compact shall automatically
renew for successive additional fifteen-year terms; provided that, within one hundred eighty
(180) days of the expiration of this Compact or any renewal thereof, either the tribe or the state,
acting through its Governor, may request to renegotiate the terms of subsections A and E of Part
11 of this Compact.

Poorly worded terms, but they definitely intended to allow renegotiation of those sections. It didn't clearly specify what to do if the tribe denies to even negotiate, but it is clear that it automatically renews so long as the governor may request to renegotiate. He did and they said no. So you could argue those terms were met, but that is certainly not the intent of it. It is disingenuous to pretend the compact is indefinite with no ability to ever be renegotiated. They tout the "automatically renew" portion without discussing the rest of it.

Who allowed this poorly written provision to make its way on the compact? It was like the perfect set up for a law suit, just because they didn't specify what to do if the tribes decline to renegotiate an-d how they can exit the compact. Furthermore, the compact can only be ended when both parties agree to it. The state might lose the case, but it's not Stitt's fault for trying to do exactly what the compact aimed to allow them to do and renegotiate.

The State has an out though: It can just make a broader casino law to allow the new game types and allow commercial casinos to compete and it will supersede this compact, but would then lose the exclusivity fees. That sounds crazy right now, with Tribal casinos as large as they are, but if the state got 12-18% on commercial gaming on similar scale, that could eventually dwarf the exclusivity fees if you're talking a billion plus in commercial gaming revenues. However, the tribes have such a head start, that would be a very bad deal for Oklahoma and would probably not be a worthy trade off for at least a few more decades.
Logged
Laramie
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 693



« Reply #607 on: January 28, 2020, 04:59:33 pm »

Presentation from both sides of the gaming compact extension . . .


Stitt:  Extension on gaming compact offered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oejeAfJTRxg

Oklahoma Indian Gaming Association response to gaming compact negotiations:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYOfrSx5ZYY

AG Hunter meets with Tribal officials to discuss gaming compacts:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7BnaXBh5fQ

« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 05:07:06 pm by Laramie » Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
swake
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 7825



« Reply #608 on: January 28, 2020, 05:01:23 pm »

Here's the part in question from the tribal gaming compact:

Poorly worded terms, but they definitely intended to allow renegotiation of those sections. It didn't clearly specify what to do if the tribe denies to even negotiate, but it is clear that it automatically renews so long as the governor may request to renegotiate. He did and they said no. So you could argue those terms were met, but that is certainly not the intent of it. It is disingenuous to pretend the compact is indefinite with no ability to ever be renegotiated. They tout the "automatically renew" portion without discussing the rest of it.

Who allowed this poorly written provision to make its way on the compact? It was like the perfect set up for a law suit, just because they didn't specify what to do if the tribes decline to renegotiate an-d how they can exit the compact. Furthermore, the compact can only be ended when both parties agree to it. The state might lose the case, but it's not Stitt's fault for trying to do exactly what the compact aimed to allow them to do and renegotiate.

The State has an out though: It can just make a broader casino law to allow the new game types and allow commercial casinos to compete and it will supersede this compact, but would then lose the exclusivity fees. That sounds crazy right now, with Tribal casinos as large as they are, but if the state got 12-18% on commercial gaming on similar scale, that could eventually dwarf the exclusivity fees if you're talking a billion plus in commercial gaming revenues. However, the tribes have such a head start, that would be a very bad deal for Oklahoma and would probably not be a worthy trade off for at least a few more decades.

In that case, the state would get nothing from Tribal casinos and any profits from commercial gaming would go out of state. A lose-lose.
Logged
Laramie
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 693



« Reply #609 on: January 28, 2020, 05:07:36 pm »


Chickasaw Nation response to gaming compact negotiations:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jbUY3VYFUc
Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12622



« Reply #610 on: January 28, 2020, 09:04:58 pm »

Did you overlook the part that allows either party to initiate the renegotiation of certain terms?


Nope.  Saw that.  Terms along the lines of rates.  Not the basic underlying compact existence.  Stitt appears (to me, anyway) to be saying that if we can't get our way, then we are just gonna kill it completely.  That is not allowed for at least 15 years in those documents.

If no agreement on renegotiation can be reached, then do the old rates stay in place?   Guess a court will tell us that....



Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12622



« Reply #611 on: January 28, 2020, 09:06:08 pm »

What does this have to do with IKEA???


Lol...good question...what does anything on this thread have to do with IKEA?

Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12622



« Reply #612 on: January 28, 2020, 09:24:57 pm »

The article conveniently leaves out the sentence directly after that one:
The tribes are providing a poor argument. Using the same logic, why would it "expire" if it were to continue as-is? Why wouldn't they write it as indefinite or as a 30 year pact if that were the intent?

The double-think here is concerning. It seems many uninformed people are against Stitt in this, but renegotiation by 01/01/2020 were the original intent of the bill. If you have issue with that, than take it up with the originators of the bill and the tribes for not following the spirit and the letter of the pact. Sure it is poorly worded, but you don't have to be a genius or lawyer to understand that.

This is a case where Governor Stitt is correct and they should renegotiate. If the tribes want to keep their state-mandated monopoly on gaming in the state, they need to be willing to at least negotiate. Otherwise, it is time to open up the rest of the state to free market gaming. The win-win is when the tribes accept slightly higher fees in exchange for a slew of new gaming options. That could drastically increase the revenue for both parties.


First, let me be absolutely crystal clear so there is NO uncertainty in anyone's mind - I am absolutely against Stitt in everything I have seen or heard from him since he first announced running for Governor.  Maybe it's that fraudulent, criminal business enterprise he ran that got him banned for life from doing business in Georgia... yeah, that's part of it.   His lies and subsequent massive failure for education in this state is another big part of it.  His d-baggery related to the Tribes in general is just another item to 'pile on' about.   (I also hate casinos and lotteries, but that is a whole other horse of a different kettle of fish...)

As for being uninformed, well maybe.  But I read the text of the bill.  Did you??   And even other reporting on the bill alludes to ambiguities.  Yeah.  It's a poorly written bill.  About what we should expect from OK legislature, isn't it?   But if you have all-knowing enlightenment about the intent when written, maybe file a friend of the court brief...?

As for renegotiation, well, maybe they should.  Maybe they shouldn't.  It's for them to say.  

"may request to renegotiate the terms"    Nothing says either side is compelled to renegotiate.

But until that process is complete, the old compact is to remain in place.  As defined by the bill.  If Stitt doesn't like it, well, tough - I guess that's what courts are for and why it's headed to court.  At least that part of the bill is pretty clear - the agreement stays in place until such time.


That article may leave that out, but the text of the bill passed has it.


« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 09:26:32 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12622



« Reply #613 on: January 28, 2020, 09:31:08 pm »

Chickasaw Nation response to gaming compact negotiations:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jbUY3VYFUc


Exactly!

Excellent explanation.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 09:36:51 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1225



« Reply #614 on: January 29, 2020, 08:55:54 am »


First, let me be absolutely crystal clear so there is NO uncertainty in anyone's mind - I am absolutely against Stitt in everything I have seen or heard from him since he first announced running for Governor.  Maybe it's that fraudulent, criminal business enterprise he ran that got him banned for life from doing business in Georgia... yeah, that's part of it.   His lies and subsequent massive failure for education in this state is another big part of it.  His d-baggery related to the Tribes in general is just another item to 'pile on' about.   (I also hate casinos and lotteries, but that is a whole other horse of a different kettle of fish...)

As for being uninformed, well maybe.  But I read the text of the bill.  Did you??   And even other reporting on the bill alludes to ambiguities.  Yeah.  It's a poorly written bill.  About what we should expect from OK legislature, isn't it?   But if you have all-knowing enlightenment about the intent when written, maybe file a friend of the court brief...?

As for renegotiation, well, maybe they should.  Maybe they shouldn't.  It's for them to say.  

"may request to renegotiate the terms"    Nothing says either side is compelled to renegotiate.

But until that process is complete, the old compact is to remain in place.  As defined by the bill.  If Stitt doesn't like it, well, tough - I guess that's what courts are for and why it's headed to court.  At least that part of the bill is pretty clear - the agreement stays in place until such time.


That article may leave that out, but the text of the bill passed has it.




I'm well aware you don't like Stitt. I'm not a big fan either (the Trump worship during his campaign was concerning). This whole issue is on the original bill writers who left it so ambiguously worded. The pact does automatically renew, but the intent was to allow renegotiation of rates every 15 years while the compact renews. There's no teeth forcing either party to renegotiate. I don't like how Stitt is handling it at all, but I am glad he is trying to fight for more revenue and offer more games. The tribes do have an amazing deal here compared to other states.

Overall the casinos are a complete shame, but you're right that's another topic. I guess if people want to be surrounded by toxic air and throw their money away, might as well have it go to support the tribes who have been screwed over at every turn by every authority since European settlers arrived on this continent. I would hate commercial casinos and that's sort of an unrealistic threat by Stitt.


I saw one tribe said they would renegotiate rates if Stitt admitted it renews, but he refused to say that. He is wrong on that account. If he'd just meet them in the middle on that, he might actually have some success.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 39 40 [41] 42 43 ... 45   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org