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June 22, 2018, 10:21:35 pm
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Author Topic: UCAT v. TDA, land development north of 244  (Read 1351 times)
erfalf
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 02:42:33 pm »

Cannon's post almost perfectly encapsulates the issue, and I agree with it completely.  But I think you are right, particularly with the current political climate, I cannot see a new major public university happening in Tulsa.  (But the spot is perfect for it...)

But still,  the "University of Northern Oklahoma" (UNO!  We're Number One!) in Tulsa would be pretty cool.



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Conan71
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 03:19:50 pm »

I'd like to see a Tulsa mayor run with this issue as the #1 priority.  Sadly it hasn't been a big enough issue for city leaders to try and change the status quo. 

Unfortunately, it's not up to city government other than lobbying a stodgy state regents board who has no interest in awarding something like this to Tulsa.  It's just like how OKC generally is favored over Tulsa when it comes to spreading state government money around.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the firstĒ -Ronald Reagan
swake
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 03:25:00 pm »

I donít know that an entirely new school is needed, or really any more money. We just need a reorganization of existing programs and buildings.

OSU-Tulsa should be its own stand-alone four year university and can be easily created by OSU-Tulsa taking over TCC downtown, Langston Tulsa and the OSU Health Sciences Center. The school certainly can remain under the OSU regents and still be part of the OSU college system. Overnight you would have a cohesive downtown research university with 10-12,000 students with a great ability to grow.

Similarly NSU-Broken Arrow should take over TCC Southeast, which ALSO should become a four year+ standalone university with a combined 6-8,000 students

TCC would retain its other campuses and remain a much smaller community college. The Tulsa area would have a balanced group of public colleges with a full four year PHD granting university with a medical school downtown and four year directional schools on the north side (RSU) and  southside (NSU) and then a community college with scattered campuses in Owasso, north Tulsa, midtown Tulsa, west Tulsa, Glenpool and Jenks (Riverside Airport).
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SXSW
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2018, 03:45:04 pm »

I donít know that an entirely new school is needed, or really any more money. We just need a reorganization of existing programs and buildings.

OSU-Tulsa should be its own stand-alone four year university and can be easily created by OSU-Tulsa taking over TCC downtown, Langston Tulsa and the OSU Health Sciences Center. The school certainly can remain under the OSU regents and still be part of the OSU college system. Overnight you would have a cohesive downtown research university with 10-12,000 students with a great ability to grow.

Similarly NSU-Broken Arrow should take over TCC Southeast, which ALSO should become a four year+ standalone university with a combined 6-8,000 students

TCC would retain its other campuses and remain a much smaller community college. The Tulsa area would have a balanced group of public colleges with a full four year PHD granting university with a medical school downtown and four year directional schools on the north side (RSU) and  southside (NSU) and then a community college with scattered campuses in Owasso, north Tulsa, midtown Tulsa, west Tulsa, Glenpool and Jenks (Riverside Airport).


This is a solid plan but would take some wrestling with TCC to make it happen.  You could honestly keep TCC in its current form but reorganize OSU and OU into more stand-alone entities that operate as their own institutions under the OU/OSU system umbrella.  They do this in many other states, see the UW-Milwaukee example I already gave and also in Colorado where CU-Denver is the urban research affiliate of CU-Boulder and the health science center is its own campus as well.  

For OSU they would have the following:
- flagship campus (Stillwater)
- urban/research campus (OSU-Tulsa)
- health sciences center (part of OSU-Tulsa)
- vocational campuses (OSU-OKC and OSU-Okmulgee)

For OU they would have the following:
- flagship campus and research park (Norman)
- urban campus (OU-Tulsa)
- health sciences center (OKC)
- school of community medicine (part of OU-Tulsa j/v with TU)

OSU would cover downtown, OU would have midtown and NSU south Tulsa/Broken Arrow.  I absolutely think TCC and Tulsa Tech should merge into one entity however.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 04:46:02 pm »

To expand, Rogers State only recently became a four year school. It previously served as a junior college of sorts.

However, a closer option (BA) is Northeastern State. A much more reputable school, with a very impressive satellite campus. It is actually comical how much more impressive it is than the downtown OSU campus.

I actually had the pleasure of taking one course @ NSU-BA and was thoroughly impressed with the quality considering it wasn't their main campus. Satellite campus often feel like a second tier option. Rogers State Main campus feels like a 5th tier. And their Bartlesville campus feels like day care. (I will admit that results may have changed as my "samples" are getting dated-nearly 10 years old at this point).


And before that it was Oklahoma Military Academy.   My friends and I were all threatened with being sent there if we didn't clean up our act...kind of like being threatened with reform school...

I took a couple courses at OSU Tulsa in the deep, dark, past.  Good place.  Wish they offered an in-house PhD - without having to do all the BOB travel...would try to get that.

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I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 04:58:41 pm »

Cannon's post almost perfectly encapsulates the issue, and I agree with it completely.  But I think you are right, particularly with the current political climate, I cannot see a new major public university happening in Tulsa.  (But the spot is perfect for it...)

But still,  the "University of Northern Oklahoma" (UNO!  We're Number One!) in Tulsa would be pretty cool.




Oklahoma Northern... there is a nice 'ring' to both those... 


Won't ever get one here since we are still in the process of "gutting" education in this state.  Every single one of the Republicontin Clown Show candidates is blathering about cutting out waste or "making turnpikes free again"...   Well they have cut out more meat than all the waste ever combined. 

And geez, Richardson, are you really that stupid about your own state to actually think turnpikes were ever free to begin with??  There is no hope....we are lost....


To paraphrase; we in Oklahoma offer the cure for hope, and for ridiculously trumped up prices....

www.despair.com


Pyramid poster is one of my favorites....






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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 05:32:22 pm »



Yeah, but it's all in the name.   "Northern Oklahoma College" is not "University of Northern Oklahoma!" (Sidebar. While I was ideating on this, I was really irritated that NSU used green as their primary color.  The school UNO tagline was going to be "This Is Green Country!"  Which was a perfect fit, but alas...)

If anyone doesn't think that the name means a lot, ask North Texas.  They tried to get "Texas State" back in the 90's.  The university was growing and the football team was improving, and as no university with "a direction" in the name has ever won a National Championship, they wanted the Texas State name, and of course the general prestige.  With the proximity to the Metroplex, that would have been a major threat to UT, TAMU, and TT, and so the political shenanigans started.  Eventually leading to Southwest Texas State (a very non-threatening school in San Marcos) getting the name.   
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 10:31:18 pm »

community college with scattered campuses in Owasso, north Tulsa, midtown Tulsa, west Tulsa, Glenpool and Jenks (Riverside Airport).

Everyone knows which airport you are mentioning but it is actually in Tulsa, not Jenks.
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TeeDub
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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 09:01:29 am »

Let's be honest...   The real push back will be the board of reagents from all the above universities.

No one wants to give up their piggy bank.    There is a lot of money in education and a large loss (look at how much OU/OSU recently spent on mandatory University housing for incoming freshmen.)   Diverting that money to a new university that will most likely be primarily a commuter campus is a big money looser.


OSU makes as almost as much in room and board as they do on tuition and fees.  (Oklahoma resident)
Tuition and Fees     $9,520
Room and Board            $8,840

OU is roughly $10k
Double: $4,714/semester; $9,428/year
Double: $5,294/semester; $10,588/year

NSU is $6860  (Not sure if this includes meals.)

That is a lot of captive money to give up!


https://admissions.okstate.edu/cost-aid/paying-college.html
http://www.ou.edu/housingandfood/residence_halls/rates.html
https://www.nsuok.edu/FutureStudents/CostCalculator.aspx
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swake
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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 09:41:42 am »

Let's be honest...   The real push back will be the board of reagents from all the above universities.

No one wants to give up their piggy bank.    There is a lot of money in education and a large loss (look at how much OU/OSU recently spent on mandatory University housing for incoming freshmen.)   Diverting that money to a new university that will most likely be primarily a commuter campus is a big money looser.


OSU makes as almost as much in room and board as they do on tuition and fees.  (Oklahoma resident)
Tuition and Fees     $9,520
Room and Board            $8,840

OU is roughly $10k
Double: $4,714/semester; $9,428/year
Double: $5,294/semester; $10,588/year

NSU is $6860  (Not sure if this includes meals.)

That is a lot of captive money to give up!


https://admissions.okstate.edu/cost-aid/paying-college.html
http://www.ou.edu/housingandfood/residence_halls/rates.html
https://www.nsuok.edu/FutureStudents/CostCalculator.aspx

Yes, the main entities that are keeping Tulsa from having a real public university arenít people at all. They are the entities of OU, OSU, TCC and Langston. Itís not the money that the state spends at issue, itís the political will to remind those entities that they exist to serve the people, not the other way around, and sometimes to meet the needs of the people, those entities are going to have to give up some power.
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SXSW
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 09:49:49 am »

Let's be honest...   The real push back will be the board of reagents from all the above universities.

No one wants to give up their piggy bank.    There is a lot of money in education and a large loss (look at how much OU/OSU recently spent on mandatory University housing for incoming freshmen.)   Diverting that money to a new university that will most likely be primarily a commuter campus is a big money looser.


OSU makes as almost as much in room and board as they do on tuition and fees.  (Oklahoma resident)
Tuition and Fees     $9,520
Room and Board            $8,840

OU is roughly $10k
Double: $4,714/semester; $9,428/year
Double: $5,294/semester; $10,588/year

NSU is $6860  (Not sure if this includes meals.)

That is a lot of captive money to give up!


https://admissions.okstate.edu/cost-aid/paying-college.html
http://www.ou.edu/housingandfood/residence_halls/rates.html
https://www.nsuok.edu/FutureStudents/CostCalculator.aspx

No reason they can't do the same thing with their respective Tulsa campuses, especially OSU which right now has free land next to the state's premier urban arts district to build housing. 
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rebound
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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 10:10:50 am »

No reason they can't do the same thing with their respective Tulsa campuses, especially OSU which right now has free land next to the state's premier urban arts district to build housing. 

It does make sense for OSU to build some housing on their Tulsa campus.  It would facilitate students who want to live in a bigger city but still attend OSU.  They already have the BOB (big orange bus:  https://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/bob/) that runs between the two campuses, for those students that need to take Stillwater classes. 

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TeeDub
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 01:19:39 pm »

It does make sense for OSU to build some housing on their Tulsa campus.  It would facilitate students who want to live in a bigger city but still attend OSU.  They already have the BOB (big orange bus:  https://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/bob/) that runs between the two campuses, for those students that need to take Stillwater classes.  



Apparently they are having trouble filling the housing they have available in Stillwater..   Why would they voluntarily lose more money?

Quote
Even OSU is adjusting housing rates, offering Apple Watches and free parking to returning students and touting its amenities, including the Colvin Recreation Center, trying to fill dormitories. But many students are opting for an upscale experience close to campus that allows them to embrace the freedom of off-campus living.

http://www.ocolly.com/news/student-housing-boom-puts-pressure-on-landlords-osu/article_ac368ba4-22f5-11e7-8080-3b2914635a61.html
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SXSW
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 02:11:20 pm »

Apparently they are having trouble filling the housing they have available in Stillwater..   Why would they voluntarily lose more money?

http://www.ocolly.com/news/student-housing-boom-puts-pressure-on-landlords-osu/article_ac368ba4-22f5-11e7-8080-3b2914635a61.html

Stillwater, like Norman, has an over-saturated student apartment market.  Tulsa doesn't currently have any kind of student housing at either OU or OSU.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2018, 10:23:05 am »

They could offer housing to TCC students too who want to move out of their parents house but not to Norman or Stillwater.  Offer a shuttle to the downtown campus (or they could bike), maybe also shuttle to other campuses maybe if there's demand.  Maybe a small fee to cover costs.  If we're going to settle into the TCC then OSU/OU/Langston-Tulsa model, might as well go all in and connect them as much as possible.
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