A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 17, 2017, 10:31:47 pm
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Does erasing history cure racism?  (Read 2260 times)
cannon_fodder
All around good guy.
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 9159



« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2017, 07:39:18 am »

Of course, I may be over-thinking the problem.  The question was, and should be "What will renaming streets or schools really, really accomplish?"

The answer needs to have a lot more substance than "Its just something we can do."

Yes, there was a bandwagon to remove perceived symbols of hate after extreme acts of violence in the name of hate.  A far better reaction than retaliatory acts of violence, but no one is going to say Americans aren't prone to jumping on a bandwagon.

And yes, those symbols may have once stood for something else.  In the context of a Hindu temple I understand seeing a swastika, but that symbol has otherwise been well and truly obfuscated.   Some symbols will never be taken back.  Others are more complex.

The reason to rename schools, roads, or remove monuments is to demonstrate that what they are now perceived to stand for is not something the community wants to celebrate.  This isn't about making on group or another happy.  It's about a message from the community about what it values.  Generally, communities don't name a school or put up a statute to "remember history" if that isn't something they hold out as worthy of celebration or intending it to send another message.  Truly, I can't think of a monument or naming right a community has done that is of something they dislike.

So when the community determines it is no longer wants to celebrate it or no longer appreciates the message, then take down the statute or rename the school.  It sends the message that the community has moved on and no long wishes to celebrate whatever meaning the monument has taken on (which may or may not be the same meaning initially intended). 

In the context of civil war monuments, I can't say it as well as the Mayor of New Orleans, so I won't try.   I'd encourage you to read his words on why New Orleans decided to remove its statutes (a move that I admit I was kind of sad to see before reading his explanation, the "old south" atmosphere seemed like part of New Orleans nastaulgia):
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/23/read_mitch_landrieu_s_confederate_monuments_speech.html

Quote
These statues are not just stone and metal. They are not just innocent remembrances of a benign history. These monuments purposefully celebrate a fictional, sanitized Confederacy, ignoring the death, ignoring the enslavement and the terror that it actually stood for. After the Civil War, these statues were a part of that terrorism as much as a burning cross on someone's lawn; they were erected purposefully to send a strong message to all who walked in their shadows about who was still in charge in this city.
Logged

- - - - - - - - -
I crush grooves.
BKDotCom
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2281



WWW
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2017, 01:33:33 pm »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/08/22/the-lie-of-maintaining-confederate-monuments-in-the-name-of-history/?utm_term=.fac2b7ab0786

Quote
Defenders of Confederate statues want us to believe not only that a statue is the only way to remember a historical figure, but also that a statue is value-neutral. It’s just “history,” not a commentary on the righteousness of the cause for which those men fought. This, too, is completely ludicrous. We don’t put up statues simply to say “Here’s a thing that happened.” If we did, there would be statues of O.J. Simpson and Balloon Boy. We put up statues to honor, venerate and exalt the people who we are commemorating. There’s no clearer way to say “This person is a hero whose acts we celebrate” than putting up a statue of them.

That’s exactly why those statues were erected in the first place: To celebrate the Confederate cause. And they were erected at times when whites in the South were particularly eager to assert white supremacy: most after the end of Reconstruction, with another wave during the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s.

I think a balloon boy-statue would be cool.
Logged
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6318


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2017, 06:24:51 pm »


We were promised a Satanic Baphomet monument not too long ago.  Might have been good for tourism...  Wink


But getting back to our city leaders, I havent heard any suggestions for a new school name.
I dont think any kid really wants to brag about going to "Reconciliation Elementary" for fear it sounds like some school-to-prison pipeline.

Sort of like "Repeal and Replace" where they havent quite worked out the second part?

Maybe we could name it after the Taiwanese-American film director?   Very Cosmopolitan, and we'd save money not having to buy new letterhead.
 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 06:28:01 pm by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
BKDotCom
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2281



WWW
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2017, 06:43:03 pm »


Maybe we could name it after the Taiwanese-American film director?   Very Cosmopolitan, and we'd save money not having to buy new letterhead.
 

I've been stumping for Sara Lee. 
Tasty snack cakes for all.
Logged
cannon_fodder
All around good guy.
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 9159



« Reply #79 on: August 23, 2017, 07:04:41 am »

Bruce
Tommy
Stan
Spike
Brandon

Actually, I kind of like Harper.  Harper Lee Elementary isn't a bad name at all.  I fully realize it is a half-solution, but if it makes everyone happy and saves coin.... it is a fitting name.
Logged

- - - - - - - - -
I crush grooves.
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 28709



« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2017, 09:33:29 am »

Bruce
Tommy
Stan
Spike
Brandon

Actually, I kind of like Harper.  Harper Lee Elementary isn't a bad name at all.  I fully realize it is a half-solution, but if it makes everyone happy and saves coin.... it is a fitting name.

Bruce & Brandon- shows respect for Asians
Tommy- can’t do that, imagine the anatomically-correct statue  Shocked
Spike- should make the BLM faction happy
Harper- a great literary legend that works well with an educational institution

I just remembered my stepfather’s brother’s name was Robert.  I guess they should change the name on his headstone to avoid offending anyone.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
BKDotCom
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2281



WWW
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2017, 10:28:16 am »

I just remembered my stepfather’s brother’s name was Robert.  I guess they should change the name on his headstone to avoid offending anyone.

Names don't offend, people do.
Also difference between gravesite and statue honoring said individual.
There's also the whole free speech thing.
Logged
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 28709



« Reply #82 on: August 23, 2017, 12:12:21 pm »

Names don't offend, people do.
Also difference between gravesite and statue honoring said individual.
There's also the whole free speech thing.



So he was a proctologist?

And then there is this stupidity or over-sensitivity:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41022954
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
BKDotCom
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2281



WWW
« Reply #83 on: August 23, 2017, 01:41:00 pm »

And then there is this stupidity or over-sensitivity:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41022954

Double face palm

UNLESS his asian-american parents named him after the confederate general?!
/s
Logged
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6318


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2017, 05:02:37 pm »


Harper- a great literary legend that works well with an educational institution

I just remembered my stepfather’s brother’s name was Robert.  I guess they should change the name on his headstone to avoid offending anyone.



New Yorkers are now taking aim at the Christopher Columbus statue in Columbus Circle and the tomb of Ulysses S. Grant.
Some object to the Theodore Roosevelt statue outside the Museum of Natural History, and others suggest the name “New York” itself may have to go because the Duke of York was a slave trader.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2017/08/23/a9e29ea6-8849-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html

Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Hoss
I'm a Daft Punk
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10916


I might be moving to Montana soon...


WWW
« Reply #85 on: August 23, 2017, 05:27:25 pm »

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/08/22/espn-pulls-announcer-robert-lee-off-virginia-game-charlottesville-protests/592458001/

The decision for the person to call or not call the game wasn't made by the network evidently, nor was he pressured to do one thing or another.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 05:29:39 pm by Hoss » Logged

Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
swake
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 7284



« Reply #86 on: August 23, 2017, 06:33:28 pm »

Bruce
Tommy
Stan
Spike
Brandon

Actually, I kind of like Harper.  Harper Lee Elementary isn't a bad name at all.  I fully realize it is a half-solution, but if it makes everyone happy and saves coin.... it is a fitting name.

S.E. Hinton Elementary

It's overdue.
Logged
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #87 on: August 23, 2017, 08:50:47 pm »

S.E. Hinton Elementary

It's overdue.

Nope. Battle of classes. Upper versus lower class. Too much diversity everyone has to be equal. Same for Titanic, everyone should have been treated equally, and should have had equal opportunity to be rescued.
Logged
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #88 on: August 23, 2017, 09:38:06 pm »

Need to change it from Lee to something like Compton, Watts, Chicago, Detroit, Selma, Rodney King, OJ Simpson, Michael Brown, Ferguson, Baltimore, Freddie Gray, Marilyn Mosby, Tawana Brawley, Al $harpton, Maxine Waters. Then it will be named right and no one will be offended.
Logged
guido911
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12027



« Reply #89 on: August 24, 2017, 01:12:31 am »

You know what cures racism? More racism. This ESPN mess with Robert Lee is unbelievable. 


Logged

Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org