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November 17, 2017, 05:05:01 pm
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Author Topic: President Hillary--The Implications  (Read 5181 times)
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2017, 07:51:59 am »

Yes, that was my point. It's a chicken or egg came first thing.

It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.

Playing politics with the facts isn't a new thing. You know that. You're deflecting is absolutely the same thing I just did.


Lol....

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2017, 07:53:52 am »

You keep conflating democratically with directly. I think you know this though, because saying he wasn't democratically elected is more powerful, no matter how false it is.


Read it again.  That is not what was said. 

What WAS said is that in fact, Trump was NOT democratically elected because that is not the system we have.  Slow down, read carefully.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2017, 08:17:24 am »

Trump apologist? I am not even that much of a fan. I am too busy enjoying the fact that HILLARY is not the president. That is what I am grateful for. Getting some control over the border, getting rid of criminal illegals, stopping international funding for abortion, ending PP funding for its infanticide, corporate tax cuts, increasing manufacturing jobs,  increasing investment in U.S. business, etc. You know, things that you hate. That is the topping on the sh$t sundae folks like you have been eating since election.




You know nothing about me, but that's ok 'cause that 'projection' is exactly what the RWRE script-kiddies are all about.  Let's rational, thinking, people who form their own thoughts pick them out of a crowd instantly.  

What is so amazing is the apparent belief, against ALL evidence to the contrary, that these things will happen.


As for abortions and planned parenthood... isn't it interesting how the number of abortions peaked strongly during the Reagan/Bush era?  I can understand how people might see and feel the hopelessness of the country's situation at that time with those guys in office - it must have been one of those "Okinawa" moments like when the Americans were winning the island in WWII, so people jumped off cliffs rather than go through that torture.  

But since 1993, when Clinton took office, the rate and numbers of abortions has been steadily dropping - most likely because of the counseling and other women's health efforts of Planned Parenthood - since they are about the only widespread realistic opportunity for many women's health care.  Despite the RWRE lies and Fake Fox News efforts, PP has always counseled a wide variety of birth control methods - NEVER encouraging abortion as the first "go to" plan.  But if you got away from Fake Fox News, and actually watched real news - NPR, PBS - you would have already known this.  But hey, get rid of PP....throw the baby out with the bath water!!   Good plan!  Lol...

And these reductions sure weren't because of any kind of "abstinence" lack-of-education program in this country!


Abortion rates;
About 1.5 million per year through the Reagan/Bush era officially reported abortions.  Slowly going down to somewhere in the 500,000 to 600,000 by 2014.  Still way too high, but very much visible forward progress.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 08:18:56 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2017, 08:47:56 am »


Read it again.  That is not what was said. 

What WAS said is that in fact, Trump was NOT democratically elected because that is not the system we have.  Slow down, read carefully.



Swake said he was NOT democratically elected. I said he was. I got it, the first and second times.
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erfalf
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« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2017, 08:53:54 am »


You know nothing about me, but that's ok 'cause that 'projection' is exactly what the RWRE script-kiddies are all about.  Let's rational, thinking, people who form their own thoughts pick them out of a crowd instantly.  

What is so amazing is the apparent belief, against ALL evidence to the contrary, that these things will happen.


As for abortions and planned parenthood... isn't it interesting how the number of abortions peaked strongly during the Reagan/Bush era?  I can understand how people might see and feel the hopelessness of the country's situation at that time with those guys in office - it must have been one of those "Okinawa" moments like when the Americans were winning the island in WWII, so people jumped off cliffs rather than go through that torture.  

But since 1993, when Clinton took office, the rate and numbers of abortions has been steadily dropping - most likely because of the counseling and other women's health efforts of Planned Parenthood - since they are about the only widespread realistic opportunity for many women's health care.  Despite the RWRE lies and Fake Fox News efforts, PP has always counseled a wide variety of birth control methods - NEVER encouraging abortion as the first "go to" plan.  But if you got away from Fake Fox News, and actually watched real news - NPR, PBS - you would have already known this.  But hey, get rid of PP....throw the baby out with the bath water!!   Good plan!  Lol...

And these reductions sure weren't because of any kind of "abstinence" lack-of-education program in this country!


Abortion rates;
About 1.5 million per year through the Reagan/Bush era officially reported abortions.  Slowly going down to somewhere in the 500,000 to 600,000 by 2014.  Still way too high, but very much visible forward progress.



I'm sure the RWRE attack on women (by closing abortion mills) had nothing to do with this statistic. With state houses all over the country turning red I expect this statistic to improve more and more, and I fully expect you to somehow attribute it to Democrats while at the same time criticizing Republicans for not giving a smile about women.

And to be fair, the run up was during the Ford/Carter years. Platauing at during the Reagan/Bush years. Admittedly they don't appear to have done much about it. And let's not forget the huge coincidence of the proliferation of sex education in schools and the aptly named Sexual Revolution of the 60s and 70s. But all those things would get in the way of a good punch line for you. Sorry.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2017, 09:21:30 am »


And to be fair, the run up was during the Ford/Carter years. Platauing at during the Reagan/Bush years. Admittedly they don't appear to have done much about it. And let's not forget the huge coincidence of the proliferation of sex education in schools and the aptly named Sexual Revolution of the 60s and 70s. But all those things would get in the way of a good punch line for you. Sorry.



Once again, goes to the lack of knowledge or sense of history...the real Sexual Revolution occurred in this country in the 1920's - runup and peak.  It took until the late 70's before we again achieved the same rates of children born out of wedlock that they had in the 20's.

Ahh...yes...during a Republican administration - the same one that brought us the Great Depression.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2017, 09:32:55 am »


Once again, goes to the lack of knowledge or sense of history...the real Sexual Revolution occurred in this country in the 1920's - runup and peak.  It took until the late 70's before we again achieved the same rates of children born out of wedlock that they had in the 20's.

Ahh...yes...during a Republican administration - the same one that brought us the Great Depression.



I hate to be that guy, but I'm gonna need some citation on that one cause everything I have found so far has out of wedlock births at about 1% in the 20's and double that in the 70's.

The passage below pretty much sums up everything I have found so far:

Quote
For some history on the black out-of-wedlock birth ratio, from the end of slavery until 1920 the black out-of-wedlock birth ratio was about 10 percent. From 1920 until 1960 this ratio went up to 20 percent. In 1970, the ratio was at 38 percent. In 1980, it was 55 percent. In 1990, it was 67.

Here are comparable figures for whites. In 1920 the white out-of-wedlock birth ratio was about one percent. In 1960 it was two percent. In 1970 it was six percent (to be more precise in 1960 it was 2.3 and in 1970 it was 5.7). In 1980 it was 11 percent. By 1990, it had climbed to 20 percent; followed by 25 percent in 1995 and 32 percent in 2005. These figures are for whites including Hispanics; that is why they are higher than the figures for non-Hispanic whites mentioned above.

So I am batting a thousand so far for NOT concurring with your statistics.
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erfalf
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« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2017, 09:37:05 am »

And I think you mistakenly blamed the depression on Hoover, when I think you meant this guy...

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2017, 09:43:20 am »

And I think you mistakenly blamed the depression on Hoover, when I think you meant this guy...




Nope.  It was Coolidge followed by Hoover - the guys that let all the banks and wall street go wild and caused the crash.  Just one of the reasons the shanty towns were called Hoovervilles....



Edit;  Coolidge did do one good thing - he granted citizenship to all Native Americans born in this country!   Think about that for a while...  He gave Native Americans citizenship....   But it took until 1924 to do that...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 09:47:52 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2017, 10:07:45 am »


Nope.  It was Coolidge followed by Hoover - the guys that let all the banks and wall street go wild and caused the crash.  Just one of the reasons the shanty towns were called Hoovervilles....



Edit;  Coolidge did do one good thing - he granted citizenship to all Native Americans born in this country!   Think about that for a while...  He gave Native Americans citizenship....   But it took until 1924 to do that...


But if it weren't for Wilson, the Depression likely wouldn't have been the GREAT depression. If it wasn't for the creation of the federal reserve and the elimination of the regional banks it far more likely that the great depression, while a rough patch for sure, wouldn't be called so today. It would have just been another run on banks and a struggle for a bit, but managed by a regional banking system that had done this very thing time and time again. The inaction by the federal reserve compounded by the fact that the previous institutions that would have dealt with this could no longer made the depression great.

And don't give me that ole you don't know history bull smile. It ain't like you were a young lad in the 20's with first hand knowledge. I've said it a bunch already but I'll say it again, come off your high horse and join us in realityville.

You are the epitome of what you claim to hate. You are party first. Facts to fit that second.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 10:15:54 am by erfalf » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2017, 10:32:26 am »

But if it weren't for Wilson, the Depression likely wouldn't have been the GREAT depression. If it wasn't for the creation of the federal reserve and the elimination of the regional banks it far more likely that the great depression, while a rough patch for sure, wouldn't be called so today. It would have just been another run on banks and a struggle for a bit, but managed by a regional banking system that had done this very thing time and time again. The inaction by the federal reserve compounded by the fact that the previous institutions that would have dealt with this could no longer made the depression great.

And don't give me that ole you don't know history bull smile. It ain't like you were a young lad in the 20's with first hand knowledge. I've said it a bunch already but I'll say it again, come off your high horse and join us in realityville.

You are the epitome of what you claim to hate. You are party first. Facts to fit that second.


Again, since you just don't get it...  No high horse.  Study history.  Talk to people that did live it.  It IS reality!  No matter how much the RWRE wants to create a revisionist fantasy of it.  (And talk about revisionist - I have even heard Limbaugh go on about what a noble cause VietNam was...from the Draft Dodger in Chief of the Fake Fox News Fantasy World.)

Everybody's got to have a dream...no matter how delusional, and you are buying into some whoppers!!  Anyone who knows anything about the economy or banking knows that the Fed ain't the one that caused the problems.  And even non-economists can just look at the history of severe depressions we had - every few years for many decades - can see that it wasn't the Fed.  It WAS exactly those regional, lone wolf banks going crazy out of control, along with decades of uncontrolled speculative insanity in the stock market with no brakes on either section.  Was happening way before the 20's - continued "hands off" non-participation by the govt just let it get worse every time. 

Ya gotta look at what leads up to stuff.  Bad depressions were happening - and that is why there were so many changes made during that time.  And why we have had such a long run of relative stability since then.  Until recently.
 
Probably the biggest contribution was the fact that the Fed was a paper tiger through that time with no real means to provide help/input.  Kind of like what Trump and Pruitt are doing to the EPA today.  Just wait - you may not only get water in the river, you may get to light it on fire for a picnic cookout !!    Bonus!


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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2017, 10:40:11 am »

Here is the history of recessions/depressions in this country.  Very easy to see that after WWII, we have had an easy ride compared to any time before.  All due to getting a Fed policy and entity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States


In particular, notice the comments about how new tariffs - as now being proposed by Trump - was also a significant factor in the Great Depression.  Among so many others brought about by Coolidge/Hoover incompetence.  But I am sure somehow the RWRE will spin it so the 3 and 4 and 5% drops in the economy we have under the Fed system are just as bad as the 15 and 20 and 25% drops in the economy we had before that...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 10:45:16 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2017, 10:40:14 am »

Anybody that read what I said will understand that I did NOT claim that the FED CAUSED the depression. They only led to letting become Great, by not doing the very thing they untrusted to do...provide liquidity. I understand this smile, trust me.

I know you want to be right and peg it on a Republican or some Right Wing conspiracy, but the fact is the inaction by the FED led the that particular depression becoming way worse than it should have. And the depressions prior were dealt with by regional guarantors that were basically put out of business when the fed was created. While maybe not perfect, they didn't allow what happened in the 20s and 30s to happen. It wasn't hands off, it was federal hands off. There is a difference.
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swake
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« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2017, 10:41:10 am »

But if it weren't for Wilson, the Depression likely wouldn't have been the GREAT depression. If it wasn't for the creation of the federal reserve and the elimination of the regional banks it far more likely that the great depression, while a rough patch for sure, wouldn't be called so today. It would have just been another run on banks and a struggle for a bit, but managed by a regional banking system that had done this very thing time and time again. The inaction by the federal reserve compounded by the fact that the previous institutions that would have dealt with this could no longer made the depression great.

And don't give me that ole you don't know history bull smile. It ain't like you were a young lad in the 20's with first hand knowledge. I've said it a bunch already but I'll say it again, come off your high horse and join us in realityville.

You are the epitome of what you claim to hate. You are party first. Facts to fit that second.

No, you need to study the history of depressions in this country, especially in the 19th century. You are just flat wrong. The depression was in fully ugly swing by the FDR came to office.
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erfalf
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« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2017, 10:42:14 am »

Here is the history of recessions/depressions in this country.  Very easy to see that after WWII, we have had an easy ride compared to any time before.  All due to getting a Fed policy and entity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States



None of that refutes the fact that they did not act as they should have during time after the stock market bust in the 20's. Liquidity dried up because the FED wasn't purchasing bonds. They did take a hands off approach, which was the exact opposite approach their predecessors took.

The reasons for the hands off approach can be speculated, but most of the speculation has to do with the fact that the most important people at the FED were on the east coast, and most of the leading problems were in the midwest. They thought they were letting competition banks fail, and never thought it would reach their doorstep. But again, that is complete speculation. Even more wild speculation would be that the WH was dictating this policy.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 10:45:22 am by erfalf » Logged

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