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November 20, 2017, 01:35:14 am
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Author Topic: 5 Story Parking Garage on 4th & Main  (Read 6609 times)
swake
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« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2017, 10:26:40 am »

Only kind of. The owners of the space are the ones building the garage and they have a building permit in hand. They are more than welcome to build a garage without getting public money.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2017, 09:26:59 pm »

I thought I read the fencing for now is just for the sculpture removal/transfer. Haven't heard anything about any go ahead on the garage

I heard they got at least a cursory nod last week after agreeing to exterior "look" improvements and a large restaurant space on the corner.

However, the fencing is up now "technically" for the fountain move.
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Dspike
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« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2017, 10:35:22 am »

New rendering with first floor retail/restaurant space.

"The TDA approved a Downtown Development Redevelopment Fund committee request to negotiate a redevelopment request with First Place LLC in October 2015. After working toward a resolution, Mayor G.T. Bynum approved terms he sent to the TDA on Aug. 28.

Those terms include the 3,000 feet of immediate retail space on the ground floor, with provisions for future retail. The project also must maintain access via the tunnel system to Main Park Plaza Garage."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/downtown-parking-garage-plans-go-to-tulsa-development-authority/article_4200c911-6665-5fda-a504-5ced4edebbdd.html
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Townsend
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« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2017, 10:58:53 am »

something tells me this is a Cimarex

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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2017, 12:21:26 pm »

New rendering with first floor retail/restaurant space.

"The TDA approved a Downtown Development Redevelopment Fund committee request to negotiate a redevelopment request with First Place LLC in October 2015. After working toward a resolution, Mayor G.T. Bynum approved terms he sent to the TDA on Aug. 28.

Those terms include the 3,000 feet of immediate retail space on the ground floor, with provisions for future retail. The project also must maintain access via the tunnel system to Main Park Plaza Garage."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/downtown-parking-garage-plans-go-to-tulsa-development-authority/article_4200c911-6665-5fda-a504-5ced4edebbdd.html

That's a huge garage! Perhaps it is needed. That rendering doesn't look great to me and the final product might  be much worse and likely more obviously a garage. I wonder how those red strips would hold up over time.

It is good they added retail space but that rendering looks pretty boring like they haphazardly added it in as an afterthought.

If they are asking for a $1.7 million development loan AND "a six-year exemption on local property taxes" (which comes out to $940,083 from the city assuming they pay back they pay back the loan).
If the tax abatement is the only thing that will get them to add the ground-floor retail, then this is not worth it: $940,083/6-years is $52/square foot per year of that agreement!

I realize the parking is the bigger part of this, but they should be able to do that on their own without city help. The main thing they are "adding" to their own plan by city request is the retail. Is downtown really going to boom that much because of any extra spaces they might add with the extra taxpayer money? There are plenty of parking garages empty after 5pm and I don't think 500 will be needed there during the day any time soon. The number they can afford on their own should be plenty. I do see the advantage of them building as large a garage as possible this one time, but tax abatement for parking sets a pretty bad precedent.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2017, 04:27:02 pm »

That's a huge garage! Perhaps it is needed. That rendering doesn't look great to me and the final product might  be much worse and likely more obviously a garage. I wonder how those red strips would hold up over time.

It is good they added retail space but that rendering looks pretty boring like they haphazardly added it in as an afterthought.

If they are asking for a $1.7 million development loan AND "a six-year exemption on local property taxes" (which comes out to $940,083 from the city assuming they pay back they pay back the loan).
If the tax abatement is the only thing that will get them to add the ground-floor retail, then this is not worth it: $940,083/6-years is $52/square foot per year of that agreement!

I realize the parking is the bigger part of this, but they should be able to do that on their own without city help. The main thing they are "adding" to their own plan by city request is the retail. Is downtown really going to boom that much because of any extra spaces they might add with the extra taxpayer money? There are plenty of parking garages empty after 5pm and I don't think 500 will be needed there during the day any time soon. The number they can afford on their own should be plenty. I do see the advantage of them building as large a garage as possible this one time, but tax abatement for parking sets a pretty bad precedent.

Now, when someone complains about there being "nowhere to park downtown," you can cite this as a counter-argument, that will surely be completely ignored.
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hello
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« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2017, 06:52:39 am »

Retail at the bottom of a parking garage doesn't mean good design. See: the ugly parking garage across the street that took the place of a historic theater. I'd say that horror is closer to what we end up getting. I hope I'm wrong.
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MostSeriousness
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« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2017, 06:58:18 am »

I thought I read somewhere that parking garage is getting a facelift.

From Tulsa Parking Authority meeting minutes on city website:

IV. Discussion on Main Park Plaza garage improvements and alternate options

Looks to have been on the agenda for the last few months, but not sure what stage that is in...
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Markk
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« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2017, 09:51:49 am »

I thought I read somewhere that parking garage is getting a facelift.

From Tulsa Parking Authority meeting minutes on city website:

IV. Discussion on Main Park Plaza garage improvements and alternate options

Looks to have been on the agenda for the last few months, but not sure what stage that is in...

Let's also hope the folks designing this have never seen, and will never see, the monstrosity that is the Tulsa World parking garage.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #69 on: September 07, 2017, 12:47:47 pm »

APPROVED (by TDA). Wait, is this any different than the news we already had? This article was just posted today like it is an update. I thought City Counsel still has to approve it.

Quote
TDA votes to negotiate loan agreement for downtown parking garage

The Tulsa Development Authority on Thursday unanimously OK'd plans to negotiate an agreement that would lend $1.67 million to a local developer for the construction of a downtown parking garage.

Headed by First Place LLC and developer Stuart Price, the project would place a 519-slot garage and at least 3,000-square-feet of retail space for a restaurant at 419 S. Main St.

The Downtown Development and Redevelopment Fund loan would provide First Place a six-year exemption on local property taxes and allow it to repay the loan over a 12-year period, documents show.

The city has one Tax Incentive District covering real estate within the Inner Dispersal Loop, the interstate highways surrounding downtown. The garage is projected to cost about $13 million, according to a building permit.

TDA approved a Downtown Development Redevelopment Fund committee request to negotiate a redevelopment request with First Place LLC in October 2015. After working toward a resolution, Mayor G.T. Bynum approved terms he sent to the TDA on Aug. 28.

Cyntergy is the architect for the project, and Nabholz is overseeing construction, which is set to take nine to 12 months, Price said this week.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/tda-votes-to-negotiate-loan-agreement-for-downtown-parking-garage/article_15c578d0-dd3d-5614-9037-b2e8e07744a3.html

« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 12:55:49 pm by TulsaGoldenHurriCAN » Logged
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2017, 12:54:19 pm »

The TDA never met a proposal they didn't like.

Their post-honeymoon love song to their dearest parking garage developers:

Quote
I never knew what love would do 'til I saw your smile
And when I did I flipped my lid and almost went plum wild
But now I know I'll never show my love to anyone
'cause wham bam you broke my heart (downtown) and I hope that you had fun

(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied
You took my heart (downtown) and tore it apart you hurt me deep inside
I'll never be a fool again you really crushed my pride
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied

I looked at you and thought I knew just how the game was played
My shirt tail ran right up my back just like a window shade
I cross my heart I'll never start to pal for anyone
'cuz wham bam you broke my heart and hope that you had fun
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied
You took my heart (downtown) and you tore it apart you hurt me deep inside
I'll never be a fool again you really crushed my pride
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) and I hope you're satisfied

I made a mess of things I guess but now I'll recognize
The next young thing that tries to say its a love-light in her eye
The love light that you spoke about was only just a flame
'cuz every tome you meet a man it lights right up again
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied
You took my heart (downtown) and you tore it apart you hurt me deep inside
I'll never be a fool again you really crushed my pride
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) I hope you're satisfied
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #71 on: September 07, 2017, 03:42:20 pm »

It is good they added retail space but that rendering looks pretty boring like they haphazardly added it in as an afterthought.

Not "Like" an afterthought. IS an afterthought.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2017, 08:47:40 am »

Is there a requirement to consider or state what the public benefit of the project is and/or what are the criteria that the decision on public money revolves around?  There are some obvious questions -

Does the new project fulfill a community need - is there a lack of parking in the area?

Will the new garage remove tenants from existing City owned garages (is the city subsidizing competition against itself)?

Does the garage provide a benefit to the community beyond profits to the owner (e.g., is there a deal to bring in a major new employer if there is onsite parking, will it enhance the overall character of the area, jump start development, etc.)?

Are the benefits provided sufficient to warrant public investment?

Is the public money secured in some way?

Is the public subsidy an incentive to build or alter the structure in some way (and is it worth it)?

Is there an opportunity cost to making this subsidy in lieu of others?


I'm not trying to be overly critical of this project, I could see many scenarios where many of the answers are positive.  I can see that it adds to overall density and to the tax base.  I can see that more parking structures discourages more surface lots.  I know that having an attached garage you control is an incentive to tenants, the more spaces you control the larger the tenant you can chase down.  I know that garages in the area once begging for tenants are probably much more competitive (Marriott hotel, OneGas, Arbys lofts, YMCA and lofts, Tulsa Club, etc.).    

I'm just curious of what the official process/guidelines are.
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MostSeriousness
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« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2017, 09:15:38 am »

It looks like there's multiple avenues of public funding that is going into this project. Or maybe that's just RE: tax stuff.

But this city web page has info on the fund for downtown development: https://www.cityoftulsa.org/developmentbusiness/economic-development/downtown-development-fund/
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2017, 07:56:20 pm »

Is there a requirement to consider or state what the public benefit of the project is and/or what are the criteria that the decision on public money revolves around?  There are some obvious questions -

Does the new project fulfill a community need - is there a lack of parking in the area?

There is a lack of parking owned by Price properties.
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