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November 17, 2017, 05:00:16 pm
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Author Topic: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway  (Read 3934 times)
brettakins
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« on: September 05, 2016, 12:18:41 pm »

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/toll-road-under-consideration-to-finish-tulsa-s-gilcrease-expressway/article_b16f0660-39e5-5810-8e7a-119ae362a1db.html



I really hate idea of a toll but if that is the only way to get this completed in a timely manner then I'm all for it.
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SXSW
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2016, 01:30:08 pm »

This has been on the boards for so long I'll believe it when I see it.  NW Tulsa is one of the last undeveloped parts of the city.  I would like to see more thoughtful development there then what has been built in SW Tulsa, something like Bradburn Village in Broomfield, CO:


The challenges in developing NW Tulsa are the existing low performing TPS schools, hilly terrain, and lack of any retail.  That is why you need a large master-planned housing development so you can create a small town center for essential retail (grocery, pharmacy, coffee shop, etc) and also build a new elementary school.  That is what they did with Bradburn Village. 

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AquaMan
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2016, 01:58:14 pm »

I know that area very well. You're describing the symptons of NW Tulsa not the causes for its malaise. Its the lack of good manufacturing jobs they used to depend on, the high density of low quality homes, and the predominantly low income, low education families. Other than Gilgrease Hills and the original Tulsa, Crosbie, Owen Park areas there just isn't much in demographics over there to attract development. They deserve good shopping, good grocers and retail, but most investors see the area as suitable for rental property, industrial and not much else. Some of that is Osage county management, part of it is being ignored by COT and Tulsa County.

If you think its a case of "build it and they will come" including schools and an expressway, I'm afraid it isn't likely. They need good jobs.
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SXSW
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2016, 03:29:17 pm »

Well it is just a few miles outside downtown where the largest concentration of office jobs are in the city.  I would think NW Tulsa and a 5-10 minute commute would be attractive for people working downtown.  It's also close to the airport and aerospace industries.  What would you propose to bring in more jobs to this area?  I think if we keep building up downtown this will be a natural extension of that growth if it can overcome the challenges I mentioned above.  Just plopping down a suburban-style neighborhood by the Gilcrease Expressway won't cut it.

There are some hilly areas that have downright amazing views.  The areas along 53rd W Ave remind me of west Austin before it became overdeveloped or the hilly parts of south Tulsa.  If you haven't been to the botanical garden it is a gem that will only get better as the plants mature and they build more gardens and trails.  The Gilcrease extension will certainly improve access to that.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 03:31:31 pm by SXSW » Logged

 
davideinstein
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2016, 05:47:05 pm »

How many highways do we need?
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2016, 08:56:02 pm »

How many highways do we need?
7
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2016, 12:10:33 pm »

How many highways do we need?


More....

Always more....
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2016, 06:49:29 am »

Fewer highways.  Less sprawl.  This is a continuation of the old way of thinking about cities. 
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Conan71
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 07:19:51 am »

Fewer highways.  Less sprawl.  This is a continuation of the old way of thinking about cities.  

Tulsaís style of sprawl is also a failed economic model yet those in leadership keep ignoring the obvious.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 01:13:07 pm by Conan71 » Logged

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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 12:37:52 pm »

Lets take the money we would spend on a highway and use it to encourage the desired economic development. Boulevards, beautification, tax breaks, good schools... lets see if that can't do it when a highway can't (see, .e.g., the Tisdale loop having tons of empty lots). I'm sure we can come up with a creative proposal that beats a highway.
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DTowner
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 01:21:34 pm »

Lets take the money we would spend on a highway and use it to encourage the desired economic development. Boulevards, beautification, tax breaks, good schools... lets see if that can't do it when a highway can't (see, .e.g., the Tisdale loop having tons of empty lots). I'm sure we can come up with a creative proposal that beats a highway.

Wasnít the Northwest Passage development announced in the late 1990s supposed to be just that sort of grand development that was going to spur growth in the entire area?  Seems that very little came of it.

The Gilcrease Expressway has been on the planning map for something like 50 years and at the current pace will not be completed for another 40 years.  By building it in such small segments, it is something of a highway from nowhere to nowhere.  While I doubt completing the Gilcrease will have anywhere near the developmental effect that the Creek Turnpike had, itís hard to argue that without it nothing much has happened in the area or is likely to happen in the coming decades.

If Tulsa grows, it is going to keep pushing its boundaries outward.  It would be better to do that in all directions, instead of primarily to the south/southeast.
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Conan71
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 01:47:53 pm »

Wasnít the Northwest Passage development announced in the late 1990s supposed to be just that sort of grand development that was going to spur growth in the entire area?  Seems that very little came of it.

The Gilcrease Expressway has been on the planning map for something like 50 years and at the current pace will not be completed for another 40 years.  By building it in such small segments, it is something of a highway from nowhere to nowhere.  While I doubt completing the Gilcrease will have anywhere near the developmental effect that the Creek Turnpike had, itís hard to argue that without it nothing much has happened in the area or is likely to happen in the coming decades.

If Tulsa grows, it is going to keep pushing its boundaries outward.  It would be better to do that in all directions, instead of primarily to the south/southeast.


JMO, if road access is the only thing supposedly stifling growth in NW Tulsa, then the area would benefit just as well with Edison being four-laned to 65th W. Ave.  Apache has been improved in recent years as well as (I think) 36th St. North west out to 52nd West. Ave.  That puts highway access within a few miles or less from the south (I-244 with exits every mile or so) and the east (The LL Tis) to those areas.  FFS, you donít have to bring a highway to the front door to make for better access.

Perhaps those living west of Central HS donít care for dense neighborhoods and thatís why they moved out that way in the first place.

ďIt may be a road to nowhere and a complete boondoggle, but itís been on the books for years, therefore letís build it!"
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 05:47:54 pm »

Fewer highways.  Less sprawl.  This is a continuation of the old way of thinking about cities.  


Just in case you think I really meant 'more'.... No!  I agree with you.  That was as sarcastic as can be expressed without inflection and voice tones....




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ďWhen you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.Ē    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
AquaMan
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 06:03:17 pm »

JMO, if road access is the only thing supposedly stifling growth in NW Tulsa, then the area would benefit just as well with Edison being four-laned to 65th W. Ave.  Apache has been improved in recent years as well as (I think) 36th St. North west out to 52nd West. Ave.  That puts highway access within a few miles or less from the south (I-244 with exits every mile or so) and the east (The LL Tis) to those areas.  FFS, you donít have to bring a highway to the front door to make for better access.

Perhaps those living west of Central HS donít care for dense neighborhoods and thatís why they moved out that way in the first place.

ďIt may be a road to nowhere and a complete boondoggle, but itís been on the books for years, therefore letís build it!"

Getting around those areas is not difficult. People did move out there for the lack of density. A friend of mine used to tell me that people who moved to Black Dog couldn't get along with other people very well! The truth is that no one in Northwest Tulsa really wants to be connected to the people living in West Tulsa anymore than Westies  and Berryhill give a flip about the Sand Springs line and Osage. Its the people who don't live in those areas that seem to want the connection. I guess to have another way around the metro. Anyway, it hasn't been done because there is no real purpose for it other than vague promises of increased development. Oh, and Dewey owns land out that way.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2016, 07:10:46 pm »

I knew some people back in the 80's and the early 90's that lived in that area between Chandler Park/Berryhill and West 41st and I would tell them that I forgot about that area, and they would say "That's why we moved there." W 41st & Hwy 97 was where they shopped and I want to say back then it was a Safeway that became a Homeland store was where the went, and working downtown was a nice drive with way less traffic. It's what a 15 to 20 minute drive from that area into downtown?
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