RNC - what a s**t show

[heironymouspasparagus]

The same fact checks that "fact checked" the statements made by a grieving mother? Fact checkers have been notorious cherry pickers. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say. Not necessarily what they say, but what they don't say.

Well, regardless of what the fact checkers say, if one has been listening to Trump at all, it's very easy to find the lies, distortions, and twisted comments - they are in every contradictory statement he makes.

[erfalf]

Well, regardless of what the fact checkers say, if one has been listening to Trump at all, it's very easy to find the lies, distortions, and twisted comments - they are in every contradictory statement he makes.

Trump doesn't have an exclusive claim to that trait.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Trump doesn't have an exclusive claim to that trait.

Absolutely not.   But when you compare the relative "whopper-ness", he is light years above and beyond.

[Hoss]

Absolutely not.   But when you compare the relative "whopper-ness", he is light years above and beyond.

I love watching people try and defend this guy.  My mother is rolling over in her grave.  She was by no means a republican but I'm betting had she lived she would have gotten a kick out of all this.

[erfalf]

I love watching people try and defend this guy.  My mother is rolling over in her grave.  She was by no means a republican but I'm betting had she lived she would have gotten a kick out of all this.

The same could be said for his opponent.

Look, I'm with you. Defending the indefensible is not the way I look at it. It's analyzing which sucks less.

[Hoss]

The same could be said for his opponent.

Look, I'm with you. Defending the indefensible is not the way I look at it. It's analyzing which sucks less.

But as H has said, this guy lies daily.  He loves telling whoppers.

I hate to roll out a Nazi comparison, but it's like Goebbel's quote:  "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Drumpf is a snake oil salesman.  We have people uninformed enough and lazy enough to believe him.

[erfalf]

But as H has said, this guy lies daily.  He loves telling whoppers.

I hate to roll out a Nazi comparison, but it's like Goebbel's quote:  "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Drumpf is a snake oil salesman.  We have people uninformed enough and lazy enough to believe him.

Name one lie he has been consistent on. 

This is a joke. I just notice, like many politicians, he plays to his audience, regardless of who it is. He will be what he needs to be to close the deal (except modest).

[Conan71]

Conan, doesn't any of this give you pause to reflect?

"There's more to Johnson's platform than marijuana legalization. Elimination of the welfare state is central to Libertarian thought, including programs such as social security and medicare. Deregulation of the economy is also central. No SEC, no FTC, no DoE, no subsidies, no EPA, no public schools, no income tax, no duty to bargain collectively, etc, etc. Does that sound remotely like Bernie's views on anything? Abortion, MJ, LGBT issues, perhaps. Everything else is pretty much pure anarchism. "

To me these planks of the platform point towards chaos. Even if never accomplished they are roadmaps to the late 19th century.

Read the entire platform and Johnson’s own position statements.  Don’t take someone else’s summary of it as Gospel. 

http://www.johnsonweld.com/

I don’t agree with every facet of the platform, but I find myself far more in agreement with it than that of the Democrat or Republican platforms.  The GOP has taken a hard right into moral stupidity and both of the leading parties represent complacency and cleptocracy.  How much good has it done the public to have politicians picking winners and losers in bank bailouts, stimulus packages, and all sorts of taxpayer-funded incentives to large contributor’s corporations?

How many of you Democrats or Republicans can say you really still agree 100% with the platforms and actions of either of the legislating members of these parties these days?

[rebound]

Read the entire platform and Johnson’s own position statements.  Don’t take someone else’s summary of it as Gospel. 

http://www.johnsonweld.com/

I don’t agree with every facet of the platform, but I find myself far more in agreement with it than that of the Democrat or Republican platforms.  The GOP has taken a hard right into moral stupidity and both of the leading parties represent complacency and cleptocracy.  How much good has it done the public to have politicians picking winners and losers in bank bailouts, stimulus packages, and all sorts of taxpayer-funded incentives to large contributor’s corporations?

How many of you Democrats or Republicans can say you really still agree 100% with the platforms and actions of either of the legislating members of these parties these days?

+1           #feelthejohnson     

[erfalf]

#feelthejohnson     

Something makes me feel a little dirty repeating that.

[AquaMan]

I saw a discussion of Johnson's stand on issues. I couldn't find a platform. A bit more sophisticated wording than Trump's positions but still heavily slanted towards negative views. Apparently nothing works well and it all must be recreated from ground up. May be true, but I doubt it would gain much support when average, aging, white labor finds out their safety net is in the hands of free range businessmen who don't have their interests at heart. The "solutions" offered, once the sugar is dusted off, seemed pretty drastic and it seemed like Cynical might have summed them up pretty well. Its likely that, like any new party, it will depend on strong young voter mobilization. Too bad about the VRA being gutted.

Still, I am very much in favor of any new party that forces the others to stand and deliver.  

[Conan71]

I saw a discussion of Johnson's stand on issues. I couldn't find a platform. A bit more sophisticated wording than Trump's positions but still heavily slanted towards negative views. Apparently nothing works well and it all must be recreated from ground up. May be true, but I doubt it would gain much support when average, aging, white labor finds out their safety net is in the hands of free range businessmen who don't have their interests at heart. The "solutions" offered, once the sugar is dusted off, seemed pretty drastic and it seemed like Cynical might have summed them up pretty well. Its likely that, like any new party, it will depend on strong young voter mobilization. Too bad about the VRA being gutted.

Still, I am very much in favor of any new party that forces the others to stand and deliver.  

The other parties are delivering shitsandwiches, I really want them to cease and desist.

Start here:

https://www.lp.org/platform

Every party has, at its core, an idealistic platform.  That gets tempered by reality and opposing forces in legislation.

There have been somewhat incorrect stereotypes about the Libertarian party for years.  People who are more comfortable with the broken status quo tend to brush off the Libertarians as an upstart bunch of kooks.  I believe as more disaffected moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans start to realize they have more in common, they could find each other in the Libertarian party.  As that party grows, I think you will see more pragmatism.  

There has to be some government intervention.  There has to be some regulation to keep order and there has to be a revenue stream for government to operate.  However, not even current government regulation is stopping the creation of monopolies.  Mega banks still merge.  Mega communication companies still merge.  Heck, the DOJ even signed off this week on a huge merger of beer giants which will leave one company with a 29% global market share of the beer market.  How is that for the great regulatory arm of government?

I personally like a government that stays out of marriage and my bedroom.  I like a government which does not pick winners and losers based on whomever is donating the most money to keep their friends in power.  I like the idea of a government which doesn’t mismanage resources through a series of redundant and broken bureaucracies.  I really believe the federal government has managed to screw up the education system with no regard for state-by-state needs.

Johnson and I see eye-to-eye on many issues.  I left the GOP about six or seven years ago because there was no place in it for me anymore.  Philosophically, I see the Libertarian Party as being somewhat like the GOP before the GOP was hi-jacked by the Christian Right.  I’ve always felt this way politically, though my social views have definitely gravitated toward the more liberal side of things in the last 10 or 15 years.

Most of the people I know who feel left behind by the GOP seem to feel the same way.

[AquaMan]

I'm happy for you. I find all I need in the Democratic party but I perceive it differently than you. Not perfect but workable. I like the idea of progressing through time with new ideas and intelligent discussion. The best, the brightest etc. I don't see that in the conservative leaning Republican party. So, if Libertarians replace Republicans it won't bother me much. Any party has to deal with a Congress that thinks it is the real power. Its embarrassing to me to see my generation slop at the conservatives only and Tea Party trough and to believe in such morality bs.

But, I suspect within a decade any emerging party will also be co-opted, corrupted and complacent.

[Conan71]

But, I suspect within a decade any emerging party will also be co-opted, corrupted and complacent.

It is politics, after all. 

[Hoss]

It is politics, after all. 

The simple solution?  Campaign finance reform.  Too bad neither party has the balls to do it.