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Author Topic: Jackson Technical HQ  (Read 7573 times)
Bamboo World
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2016, 01:56:10 pm »


You knew that's what he meant...


I thought I knew by "curb" Conan probably meant something else, hence the teasing, winking smile.  

But, then again, a few days ago, when I read that "Malcolm is beyond anal about making sure Riverview is cleaner than it was before the [Tulsa Tough] race," I had no idea of what Conan meant by "cleaner" -- perhaps something else, such as "trashier."
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2016, 03:58:41 pm »

I didn't mean to bash the building. It is a great addition to the neighborhood and keeping business downtown is obviously awesome. I was curious on what the thought process was.

And yes, I admit to viewing a lot of development in terms of missed opportunity. Guilty!
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2016, 08:50:10 pm »

The bigger question:  Why is it even allowed?

Because hardly anyone fights to make it not allowed.  Gosh I have put my neck out on the line to try and get things changed and so often feel alone with nobody standing beside me, and big powerful people standing across from me giving me the evil eye lol.
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Conan71
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2016, 08:01:03 am »

I thought I knew by "curb" Conan probably meant something else, hence the teasing, winking smile.  

But, then again, a few days ago, when I read that "Malcolm is beyond anal about making sure Riverview is cleaner than it was before the [Tulsa Tough] race," I had no idea of what Conan meant by "cleaner" -- perhaps something else, such as "trashier."

There’s usually the occasional cigarette butt, QT cup, or food wrapper along the curb in any neighborhood in any part of Tulsa.  I seriously doubt there would be anything like that left after the cleaning crew is done on Sunday evening, ergo “cleaner than it was before...”.  If there is still any trash left in Riverview more than a few hours after the event is over on Sunday, the event staff needs to be made aware of it.  The point I was trying to make is Malcolm understands SFTT has to do a really good job mitigating the mess in order to stay friendly with the HOA. You obviously are a literalist so I’ll keep that in mind with my comments in the future, Boo.  Wink

When I went up the hill to retrieve the water monsters at 13th & Jackson at 7pm, there was a very good effort going on at picking up trash.  It still  smelled like rotten hippie and stale beer but I’m sure that dissipated within a matter of days.  Grin
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rdj
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2016, 08:31:16 am »

On the FB page, someone said the owner is from Broken Arrow, might have something to do with the thinking.  It really should be built up to the curb, especially in that area.

I've known Tim about ten years but haven't visited with him in about a year.  Last I knew he and his wife lived in a townhome at Central Park at 8th & Peoria and have for seven plus years.  They had fully embraced the urban lifestyle as they spent many evenings dining and entertaining downtown.  They've been working on this project for quite sometime.  I too am surprised with the setback and can only think it is because of the lingering desire to have a set of parking spots right in front of the building.
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2016, 09:21:28 am »

It still  smelled like rotten hippie and stale beer but I’m sure that dissipated within a matter of days.  Grin

I'd don't know man, that rotten hippie smell can linger for a long time...    Wink

Seriously though,  I was out of town for TT, and got back on Monday.  I road CBH on Tuesday afternoon just for kicks, and I remember thinking "man, they did a good job cleaning this place up".  I'm sure there were small scraps of trash around, but it looked amazingly clean considering what went on Sunday.
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2016, 09:54:29 am »

I've known Tim about ten years but haven't visited with him in about a year.  Last I knew he and his wife lived in a townhome at Central Park at 8th & Peoria and have for seven plus years.  They had fully embraced the urban lifestyle as they spent many evenings dining and entertaining downtown.  They've been working on this project for quite sometime.  I too am surprised with the setback and can only think it is because of the lingering desire to have a set of parking spots right in front of the building.

From Tulsa World: "Two years after Tim Jackson founded his IT services company from his home in Broken Arrow, he sought a niche in downtown Tulsa. He found one in 2001."

I guess you can take a person out of the suburbs but you can't take the suburbs out of the person. That suburban, car-oriented approach has found its way to this project. They could have easily brought this building to the sidewalk and placed parking behind the car. Instead, this company that "gets" downtown so well is building an asphalt monument to suburbia between two historic buildings that meet the sidewalk.

This sort of backwards thinking could have been prevented very simply if we hadn't bowed to pressure from uninformed members of the DCC and certain members of the development community who opposed allowing overlay districts in downtown. Instead, those uninformed folks successfully blocked a useful, widely used tool, based on fear (because they didn't understand it). Their fear mixed with hyperbole and power, and now we've got no protections in place for easily the most unique and valuable area of our city.

We could have created an overlay district for downtown that required basic things, like bringing buildings close to the sidewalk and putting parking behind.

For walkability, it's the little things that matter. It's the little things that send signals to your brain that you're in an area that feels comfortable to walk in, or not. That you're in a place designed for people, or not. That you're safe, or not. That you should keep walking, or not. That you should turn around. That you should cross the street because the other side feels better. It goes on and on.

Those details matter the most, and this one gets the basic stuff wrong, like where to put the building. Instead of meeting the street, it will sit behind cars. Folks walking down Elgin will have to cross two driveways* for this place, and we know that driveways that cross sidewalks are not safe for folks walking.

*In order to build this monument to cars, the two oldest remaining homes within downtown were demolished, but both driveways were kept.

Here's what the parking situation looks like around this property:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 09:56:41 am by dsjeffries » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2016, 10:46:54 am »

it is a nice looking building. Too bad you wont be able to see it.

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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 11:02:41 am »

I think we should say something on their Facebook page.  https://www.facebook.com/JacksonTechnical/

I just walked over there to talk with Tim but he wasn't there and left my info with the secretary. 

I think public concerns about the project by the Sound Pony helped to persuade that developer to make some very good changes.  Perhaps this person just doesn't know about these things.

Is the Architectural firm downtown?  I wonder if they mentioned this issue?  Would be irresponsible for them not to do so.
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2016, 12:41:19 pm »

Honestly, it looks like we're talking about 7 parking spaces in exchange for losing the ability to see that cool new building as you drive down the road, and the ability for people in that building to see a street scape from their glass and balconies. I wouldn't attribute malice the "Tim" (I don't know, feels weird using his first name).  Guy probably doesn't pay attention to development issues like us nerds, and was more focused on the functionality of his building.

Doesn't mean someone can't point it out to him. Would be simply awesome if it was fronted.
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2016, 05:10:35 pm »


For walkability, it's the little things that matter. It's the little things that send signals to your brain that you're in an area that feels comfortable to walk in, or not. That you're in a place designed for people, or not. That you're safe, or not.


The 600 block of Elgin could be improved for pedestrians by eliminating the dedicated left turn lanes and by allowing curbside parking on both sides of the street.  With 56 feet between curbs, there's plenty of space for on-street parking.  (same for the the 500, 700, and 800 blocks, and part of the 900 block, too)


Folks walking down Elgin will have to cross two driveways* for this place, and we know that driveways that cross sidewalks are not safe for folks walking.

*In order to build this monument to cars, the two oldest remaining homes within downtown were demolished, but both driveways were kept.


Actually, those houses shared a single driveway, and it was only about nine feet wide where it crossed the public sidewalk.
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2016, 10:29:24 am »

Greetings fellow Tulsans and downtowners.  While the majority of feedback we’ve received has been positive, I wanted to address your concerns on the site placement of our new building.
 
I assure you, we and our architecture team considered many options for the site placement… including up to the sidewalk.  The debates were thorough and never did reach a unanimous consensus. Ultimately, I was the one who made the final decision on the placement.  There were engineering, financial, and accessibility parameters, among other considerations…
 
The primary reason was SAFETY.  We’ve observed the traffic exiting the IDL highways on 7th street tends to be faster than normal as they adjust to downtown grid speeds.  These unsafe speeds extend through Elgin as they turn North from the exit in front of the property.  Our business is service oriented and our technicians are constantly visiting clients throughout the day.  If the extra visibility might prevent an accident, I am of course going to accommodate that.
 
Secondarily was to maximize on-property parking.  There is no street parking in front on Elgin, and all of the lots nearby are private parking reserved for their respective tenants.  The Lindsey House and Coliseum Apartments have just enough parking for their residents, the covered parking to the East is reserved for PSO employees, and so on.  We will have a small number of parking spots in front of the building, the majority on the north side facing the Lindsey House fence, and additional parking behind the building using the alley as room to back out.  Putting the building forward did not increase the number of spots we could accommodate behind the structure.
 
And lastly was function over form.  While we appreciate that many people like the look and feel of buildings developed all the way to the sidewalk… that preference is subjective.  We have daily FedEx and UPS shipments and accessibility was important to us.  The upside-down “U” shape that the three buildings will form feels inviting and comforting to me… a 3 story “hug”.  The sidewalk in front of the properties will not be impeded and will provide an aesthetically pleasing building which creates variety.
 
I am an advocate of downtown Tulsa and only wish the best for our urban core.  I setup shop downtown in 2001, and have lived in the Pearl District for over a decade.  I completely embrace a vibrant and pedestrian friendly environment.  But our employees and visitors have vehicles, and we must accommodate that as well.  If having a few parking spots up front encourages our Broken Arrow and other suburban friends to come visit and be comfortable doing it, I embrace that.
 
While I’m certain my response won’t change the minds of everyone that this is important to, I do hope you respect that this design is the best option for our significant investment in downtown Tulsa.
 
Sincerely,
 
Tim Jackson, President
Jackson Technical
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2016, 11:18:18 am »

Putting the building forward did not increase the number of spots we could accommodate behind the structure.
 

That sounds like a very key reason for the placement and sounds like you considered the concerns on here. It is a great looking building and I appreciate that you tried to make it more of an urban-oriented building and really a minimal amount of parking compared to a typical suburban building. Also appreciate when local business owners move and build downtown!

Thank you for the thorough response!
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« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2016, 12:09:12 pm »

Tim, thanks for taking the time to provide a full explanation to a bunch of folks on the internet who have no say or authority over your decision. Appreciate you taking the time to engage. And THANK YOU for developing an otherwise undeveloped plot of land that is not right near the burgeoning parts of downtown. That's a risk for anyone to take. Thanks for taking it and by doing so, making downtown a bit better.
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2016, 09:16:30 pm »

On an internet opinion forum about development, everyone participating in the discussion has a say.  The property owner has the authority to decide what gets built and where on his land, but the discussion about the proposed development is an open forum.  That "said," I'm modifying my opinion a bit:

It's disappointing to see the proposed building set back from the public sidewalk along Elgin.

It's disappointing to see a large curb cut for access to only six parking spaces in front of the building.  I'm assuming there will be a second curb cut for access to a parking area along the north side of the property, perhaps about 18 spaces.  And I'm guessing there might be enough land for about 12 spaces along the alley, behind the building.

The on-site parking would be better alley-side instead of street-side.  However, now I know that the secondary reason for the building placement is the desire to maximize on-site parking.  The objective of maximizing on-site parking, especially when it's all single-level surface parking, is at odds with a number of urban design ideals, such as walkability, vibrancy, and pedestrian friendliness.

It's disappointing that the City of Tulsa allows so much of its existing downtown infrastructure to be under-utilized.  From curb to curb, Elgin's roadway is 56 feet wide.  There's an additional 12 feet on each side of the street for sidewalks, trees, etc.  A cycle track is planned for Elgin.  The Downtown Master Plan lists the future conversion of 7th Street to two-way traffic, west of Elgin.  With 56 feet between curbs, there is enough space for parking on both sides of Elgin, a protected bike lane, a moving traffic lane in each direction, and a center left-turn lane.

My suggestion would be to repaint Elgin with six lanes as detailed above, and to change the traffic signal at 7th Street to flashing red.  That would slow down the traffic on both 7th (which is often too fast and unsafe coming from the IDL as described by TimJ808) and on Elgin, also.

By allowing parallel on-street parking on the 600 block of Elgin, I'm estimating there could be five four spaces along the west side of the street, and about seven along the east side.  That's taking into account:
a) the existing curb cuts, and
b) my best guess about the locations and the widths of the two proposed curb cuts for Jackson Technical, and
c) an existing unused driveway on the west side of the street.


With a single curb cut for Jackson Technical instead of two, then I estimate nine or ten potential parking spaces on the east side of the street, instead of seven.  Anyway, that's a potential of at least twelve eleven on-street parking spaces for the 600 block of Elgin.

Also, in my quick estimation, by eliminating three on-site parking spots in front of the proposed building and shifting it about nine or ten feet closer to Elgin, one parking space plus about 800 square feet of additional landscaped area could be gained behind the structure.  That would be a net loss of two on-site parking spaces, however.

Driveways crossing sidewalks are impediments to pedestrian safety.  The fewer the driveways, the better.  The narrower the driveways are, the better.  Curbside parking and street trees increase pedestrian safety, too.

Edit:  The driveway on the west side of Elgin I thought was not used is actually an active access to a raised dock.  I saw it in use today.      
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 12:54:10 pm by Bamboo World » Logged
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