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November 21, 2017, 04:54:04 pm
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Author Topic: Here's a radical thought: Tear down 1 Williams Tower  (Read 5687 times)
Red Arrow
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2016, 04:36:09 pm »

$100,000,000 would buy a nice starter light rail system.
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Conan71
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2016, 05:24:20 pm »

Connectivity. We are spending more than that on low water dams.

Thatís the same logic my ex wife would use on me if I bought something frivolous, she would go buy something frivolous just because I had.  I called it retaliatory spending.

I really donít get the whole point why someone would gut virtually the biggest contributor to ad valorem tax in downtown so more developers can stick their hands out for all sorts of freebies to build on the space.

Never mind that, as others have alluded to, it is one of the more iconic landmarks on the Tulsa skyline and has been for 40 years.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the firstĒ -Ronald Reagan
davideinstein
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2016, 06:40:27 pm »

It's misplaced. Surprised no one sees that.
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Hoss
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2016, 06:59:13 pm »

It's misplaced. Surprised no one sees that.

Really?  How about compare that to the Devon Tower and see what is misplaced.

I think the Williams Tower is placed just fine.
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davideinstein
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2016, 07:18:45 pm »

Really?  How about compare that to the Devon Tower and see what is misplaced.

I think the Williams Tower is placed just fine.

Devon Tower is equally awful, but at least the Brady District isn't on the other side.
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BKDotCom
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2016, 07:25:25 pm »

Also misplaced:  Empire State Bldg
I worked downtown (5th & Main) for 15 years.   Regularly walked over to the Brady area without issue.
It's a building, not the Berlin wall.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2016, 07:29:08 pm »

You're either trolling, or you have been drinking Uncle Kimchi's bong water. Yeah, go ahead, tear it down and send another 2000 or so jobs out of downtown.
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davideinstein
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2016, 10:05:54 pm »

Not trolling at all. I made my argument as being connectivity. I think it's a huge, generic looking office complex that takes the flow out of downtown. People always go to 5th/6th and Boston to look north but rarely go to 3rd/4th and Boston looking south. Try both and tell me which one feels better.

Edit: Also made it clear on what to do with the jobs. Move to other buildings or build on flat surface lots.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2016, 08:03:02 am »

Yes, it is out of place. It broke up the grid and made a hated super block. So did the BOk Center, Drillers Stadium, Convention Center, and the University of Tulsa. Not to mention the interruption caused by Expo Square, the shopping malls, movie theaters, and etc. Tear them all down! DOWN I SAY!

Again, lets do the math:

Buy the building: $100,000,000
Tear it down: $25-75,000,000 (Call it $50mil)
Build the roads and landscape: $25,000,000  (obviously more if we are replacing the Boston bridge)
and now we are going to replace 1,000,000 square feet of office space: ~$240,000,000 (One Place Tower cost $120mil to build and is ~275,000 square feet of office space, but included retail and parking. To try to keep the number as low as possible lets pretend we double the cost and get almost 4 times the space)

Okay, so the total cost of extended Boston Avenue two blocks is now $415,000,000.. People that now want to go from the Marriott to the Brady District now save themselves a two block detour. Each Jimmy John's rider saves a minute and half on his bike. And on our maps, the grid is one step closer to being restored.

$415,000,000.00 for two blocks of road.

OR... we could install a light rail system that goes around that gap at a cost of $20,000,000 a mile. That gets us about the same light rail system as Boston, Phoenix, Houston, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, Seattle...  

If we wanted to start a subway system we could build a line from Boston Avenue Methodist Church to Guthrie Green for $160,000,000 ($100mil/km). Another 3K to the University of Tulsa down 6th or 11th and we would certainly burn the budget. But hey... we'd have a subway.

Now, a subway is a dumb idea. Not because it wouldn't be neat, interesting, or somewhat useful. But it is a terrible use of resources.
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erfalf
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« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2016, 08:13:21 am »

This thing kills connectivity also.



Connectivity is not everything.
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Townsend
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« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2016, 11:13:02 am »

This thing kills connectivity also.



Connectivity is not everything.

Ugh...all those trees sucking up the oxygen.

The Williams tower blocks the Mayor's view of the river too...
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2016, 12:34:42 pm »

If your complaint is because you are missing out or losing business in the Brady District, blame that on JJ's restrictive delivery policy, not the way the city is laid out. Want business in the Brady? Build a store over there.
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Weatherdemon
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« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2016, 12:36:13 pm »

Not trolling at all. I made my argument as being connectivity. I think it's a huge, generic looking office complex that takes the flow out of downtown. People always go to 5th/6th and Boston to look north but rarely go to 3rd/4th and Boston looking south. Try both and tell me which one feels better.

Edit: Also made it clear on what to do with the jobs. Move to other buildings or build on flat surface lots.

You do realize that the park area, hotel, and PAC were all a part of the tower project, right?
I think it's in a great place and adds to the skyline.
Remember, there wasn't really anything north of 3rd street when it was built so I think they did a fine job.
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davideinstein
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« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2016, 03:31:57 pm »

This thing kills connectivity also.



Connectivity is not everything.

You're comparing a great park to a massive office tower with no life. There is nothing along the street of the building that gives enhancement to anything around it. Go to CityPlex and see how morbid it looks. That is the Williams tower but it benefits from the buildings within a few blocks for life unlike CityPlex.
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davideinstein
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« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2016, 03:32:37 pm »

You do realize that the park area, hotel, and PAC were all a part of the tower project, right?
I think it's in a great place and adds to the skyline.
Remember, there wasn't really anything north of 3rd street when it was built so I think they did a fine job.

PAC and the hotel are within the grid.
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