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November 23, 2020, 11:43:30 pm
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Author Topic: 11TH ST DEVELOPMENT  (Read 45610 times)
dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #165 on: August 14, 2020, 10:09:48 am »

Did Mother Road Market boot Sooner Tamale Company because their logo has a cartoon character making the "OK" hand sign?

In a statement on the Kitchen 66 Facebook page, Kitchen 66 wrote that the program was “made aware of one of our kitchen members making comments that do not align with our core values. As we have discussed (www.kitchen66tulsa.com/equity), our commitment to antiracism is unwavering. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our workspaces or beyond, and we stand, and act, against racism. The Sooner Tamale Company will no longer be a part of the Kitchen 66 program.”
https://www.krmg.com/news/local/tulsa-tamale-business-forced-out-kitchen-66-after-facebook-flap/7GXQJ7NHMJC3ZENH5N2ICPKEX4/



Yes, the okay hand gesture is now a form of white supremacist  hate speech.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate
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Rattle Trap
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« Reply #166 on: August 14, 2020, 02:09:02 pm »

Yes, the okay hand gesture is now a form of white supremacist  hate speech.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate

The whole "okay sign is white supremacy" is literally derived from an internet meme making fun of idiots who claim the most trivial things, such as emojis, are racist. Now dumb-donkey media outlets have slowly picked up on it and claimed it to be racist, so even more idiots now think white supremacists actually use the okay symbol.

Hugely ironic that a meme to make fun of these people has actually convinced them it's a white supremacist symbol. Not sure if it's funny or depressing.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #167 on: August 14, 2020, 02:35:01 pm »

The whole "okay sign is white supremacy" is literally derived from an internet meme making fun of idiots who claim the most trivial things, such as emojis, are racist. Now dumb-donkey media outlets have slowly picked up on it and claimed it to be racist, so even more idiots now think white supremacists actually use the okay symbol.

Hugely ironic that a meme to make fun of these people has actually convinced them it's a white supremacist symbol. Not sure if it's funny or depressing.

Even a joke can turn into something literal. I'm not here to debate that though and trying to make it about that as the reason they kicked him out is gaslighting the situation. Kitchen66 is a non-profit, run by the Taylor Foundation and others. Look at the dude's conduct online and how he spoke to people and acted. He was/is a complete a**hole. Generally, when you're working in common area spaces these are not the types of people who thrive and conductive to creating great environments for others. I would imagine he was given a last warning of sorts and this last hissy fit online resulted in it being time to part ways.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #168 on: August 14, 2020, 03:22:01 pm »

Even a joke can turn into something literal. I'm not here to debate that though and trying to make it about that as the reason they kicked him out is gaslighting the situation. Kitchen66 is a non-profit, run by the Taylor Foundation and others. Look at the dude's conduct online and how he spoke to people and acted. He was/is a complete a**hole. Generally, when you're working in common area spaces these are not the types of people who thrive and conductive to creating great environments for others. I would imagine he was given a last warning of sorts and this last hissy fit online resulted in it being time to part ways.

Has something like this happened more than once? Or was this a the first time? I can't seem to find any other stories about the business other than how they got their start. If he has conducted himself this way before and was warned about it, then it would seem justifiable.

To be honest, I'd hate to be a business owner these days. You can get attacked and raked over the coals on social media and if you don't do it right in trying to defend yourself and your business, you can get crucified and not just on social media.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #169 on: August 14, 2020, 03:25:18 pm »

The whole "okay sign is white supremacy" is literally derived from an internet meme making fun of idiots who claim the most trivial things, such as emojis, are racist. Now dumb-donkey media outlets have slowly picked up on it and claimed it to be racist, so even more idiots now think white supremacists actually use the okay symbol.

Hugely ironic that a meme to make fun of these people has actually convinced them it's a white supremacist symbol. Not sure if it's funny or depressing.

I find it depressing. When a fictional joke becomes a mainstream fact and the ADL outlaws it without fact checking, you are one step close to censorship.
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swake
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« Reply #170 on: August 14, 2020, 03:27:07 pm »

The "perfect" hand sign as a White Supremacy signal comes from the 3 Percenters racist anti-government militia group, usually with three fingers turned down or sideways, the three fingers for "three".

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BKDotCom
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« Reply #171 on: August 14, 2020, 03:48:59 pm »

Has something like this happened more than once? Or was this a the first time? I can't seem to find any other stories about the business other than how they got their start. If he has conducted himself this way before and was warned about it, then it would seem justifiable.

To be honest, I'd hate to be a business owner these days. You can get attacked and raked over the coals on social media and if you don't do it right in trying to defend yourself and your business, you can get crucified and not just on social media.

They didn't get the boot for the okay hand sign.. they got the boot it for being complete asshats.  Someone questioned why their tamales were $20 / dozen and they went off on a rant about "liberal cancel culture bs" atc.   Perhaps they should have simply said they're 1/2lb tamales made with high-quality ingredients.   
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 03:52:05 pm by BKDotCom » Logged
patric
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« Reply #172 on: August 14, 2020, 06:35:15 pm »

They didn't get the boot for the okay hand sign.. they got the boot it for being complete asshats.  Someone questioned why their tamales were $20 / dozen and they went off on a rant about "liberal cancel culture bs" atc.   Perhaps they should have simply said they're 1/2lb tamales made with high-quality ingredients.   

You are probably right, but the kitchen cited a different reason in their public announcement:

"Our commitment to antiracism is unwavering. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our workspaces or beyond, and we stand, and act, against racism."

and KRMG tied it to the cartoon character in the sombrero making the gesture.  As for the origin of the hoax to asociate the OK symbol to white supremacy:

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/114482325/   NSFW
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #173 on: August 16, 2020, 12:35:08 pm »

You are probably right, but the kitchen cited a different reason in their public announcement:

"Our commitment to antiracism is unwavering. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our workspaces or beyond, and we stand, and act, against racism."

and KRMG tied it to the cartoon character in the sombrero making the gesture.  As for the origin of the hoax to asociate the OK symbol to white supremacy:

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/114482325/   NSFW

He also made comments about how his tamales aren't made in your basement and don't contain "dog hair and cockroaches like yours". It was more about who he made those remarks to that were interpreted as racist. Hints their statement. It was after this that people started looking at their logo and it looked to be a pattern of a racist white dude, that maybe the logo was making that sign for a reason.

They did not kick him out for the logo. It was entirely for the commentary he has made to people that was deemed as inappropriate and borderline racist. As a nonprofit, Kitchen66 likely didn't feel like it was worth keeping them around. There's plenty of other people who would gladly take their spot that aren't going to be a public relations nightmare.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #174 on: August 16, 2020, 01:44:52 pm »

I've read the back and forth comments, and yes they're definitely inappropriate, I just can't make the leap to racism. Any basement can have dog hair, cockroaches, rat crap etc in them regardless of who you are.
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tulsabug
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« Reply #175 on: August 16, 2020, 06:55:20 pm »

I've read the back and forth comments, and yes they're definitely inappropriate, I just can't make the leap to racism. Any basement can have dog hair, cockroaches, rat crap etc in them regardless of who you are.

I can. It's not a leap. The replies were to a person with the last name of 'Martinez' and they're implying since he has a Latino name he's dirty and is probably chopping up the neighborhood dogs for the "meat" but don't worry - us white folks can do it right since we're not savages. They wouldn't have said that if Jim Smith had asked about prices. The logo is not only a really bad amateurish design but also massively tone-deaf. Best to avoid minefields in business as best as one can and possible racist hand-signs and stereotypical giant sombreros and giant mustaches are just asking for a push-back.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #176 on: August 16, 2020, 10:06:13 pm »

I can. It's not a leap. The replies were to a person with the last name of 'Martinez' and they're implying since he has a Latino name he's dirty and is probably chopping up the neighborhood dogs for the "meat" but don't worry - us white folks can do it right since we're not savages. They wouldn't have said that if Jim Smith had asked about prices. The logo is not only a really bad amateurish design but also massively tone-deaf. Best to avoid minefields in business as best as one can and possible racist hand-signs and stereotypical giant sombreros and giant mustaches are just asking for a push-back.

Agreed. It's also not the only a**hole moment from this guy either. If you say boo to him he accuses you of liberal cancel culture and to leave his small business alone, seems to have some major anger issues. As I had mentioned earlier, this wasn't his first instance and this one just happened to come off racist to many people and blew up online. Kitchen 66 doesn't have to let people who violate their ethics codes (which can include just being a jerk and unprofessional, even if you don't think what he said was racist). They had to agree to these terms to use the facility, and thus the facility can terminate their agreement to use the facility if they deem it worthy. Regardless of wether you can prove it was with an intent of being racist or not.

I think many people seem to think that freedom of speech means you can say whatever offensive thing you want and people are just supposed to take it. You can say whatever you want, but does not mean you are free from the repercussions of your speech. Which can mean a range of things from losing customers as a business, slander if you make something up and publicize it, etc. I don't get how people don't understand this concept. Most American's are entitled though and the stupid one's don't understand how laws/agreements work and go "but the constitution says freedom of speech!!!"
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #177 on: August 17, 2020, 12:34:14 am »

I have a deep respect and understanding of freedom of speech both as a personal right and in journalism. Most of it I learned when taking journalism in high school 40+ years ago. One of the best teachers I ever had, earned her Masters in Journalism and English from TU, and both she and her husband worked for the Tulsa World and other Tulsa media outlets.

https://ninde.com/tribute/details/1078/Marilee-Chambers/obituary.html
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tulsabug
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« Reply #178 on: August 17, 2020, 11:42:36 am »

Agreed. It's also not the only a**hole moment from this guy either. If you say boo to him he accuses you of liberal cancel culture and to leave his small business alone, seems to have some major anger issues. As I had mentioned earlier, this wasn't his first instance and this one just happened to come off racist to many people and blew up online. Kitchen 66 doesn't have to let people who violate their ethics codes (which can include just being a jerk and unprofessional, even if you don't think what he said was racist). They had to agree to these terms to use the facility, and thus the facility can terminate their agreement to use the facility if they deem it worthy. Regardless of wether you can prove it was with an intent of being racist or not.

I think many people seem to think that freedom of speech means you can say whatever offensive thing you want and people are just supposed to take it. You can say whatever you want, but does not mean you are free from the repercussions of your speech. Which can mean a range of things from losing customers as a business, slander if you make something up and publicize it, etc. I don't get how people don't understand this concept. Most American's are entitled though and the stupid one's don't understand how laws/agreements work and go "but the constitution says freedom of speech!!!"

The important thing many people forget about our constitutionally protected freedoms is they are protection from the Federal government making laws infringing on said rights - it does not mean a business or a landlord or whoever has to allow it. This is why guitar stores can prohibit you from playing "Stairway to Heaven" and it's totally legal.

The other thing is many people have a misunderstanding of what being a racist is. It doesn't necessarily mean you're heading to cross-burning with a bunch of guys in pointy white hoods. It also doesn't mean it's intentional. I think with these two it's not necessarily intentional only because they're incredible un-self-aware. As a business owner it's always best to stop, step back, count to 10, and look at your potential response to an issue with a calm head and empathy. This should be a learning experience for these two to reexamine who they are and become a better version of themselves because of it. That being said, reading the whole back and forth really was just like watching an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm - they just kept getting more and more tone deaf and the ending of "I have Latino relatives" just made me wince.

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« Reply #179 on: September 04, 2020, 01:15:58 pm »

From Mother Road Market's Facebook page.  So glad to see this corner redeveloped, wish we could get some trees along the streetscape but that can hopefully come later and involve a more comprehesive streetscape/pedestrian improvements along Lewis from 13th up to 1st and all along 11th between Peoria and Harvard.

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