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November 13, 2019, 11:15:29 am
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Author Topic: 11TH ST DEVELOPMENT  (Read 28940 times)
BKDotCom
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« Reply #135 on: June 16, 2019, 06:39:31 pm »

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« Reply #136 on: June 17, 2019, 10:29:06 am »

Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan.  All it will take is a city leader to advance it as part of a future transportation bond and/or tax package. 
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #137 on: June 17, 2019, 10:53:06 am »

Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan.  All it will take is a city leader to advance it as part of a future transportation bond and/or tax package. 

Where can one find this long-range transportation plan?
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ELG4America
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« Reply #138 on: June 17, 2019, 11:45:02 am »

When I compared it to the double track trolley from where I grew up, the freight line here looks as wide or wider in most spots than the trolley line.  I was thinking of move the freight line to one side and put light rail on the other, not light rail down the center.  The trolley line was built in the early 1900s.  Right of way regulations are probably tougher now.

https://goo.gl/maps/GDPMfrU9M72eNTNz5



An elevated train above the Broken Arrow Expressway/UP-BNSF Line would allow us to use existing right of way on an already developed corridor (avoiding nimbys.)

3 Downtown stops, BOK Center (End of line - near Elwood) Union Station (main downtown station)  McNellies/OneOK Field (Small stop near Greenwood,) 1 Pearl District stop (near 6th and Utica.) Then stops at the major intersections with Lewis, 21st, Yale, Sheridan, 41st and Memorial, 71st/Kenosha (near Rhema,) and a large Downtown BA Station near the Performing Arts Center for the end of line. That's 10 stops along a ~14 mile route.

Cost: Estimate $100mil/mile (high end of the $15-$100mil average cost per mile in the US) plus an average of $25mil per station comes to a project cost of $1.65 billion. For cost comparison the I-40 relocation project in OKC had a final budget of $557 million for 5 miles (not sure whether they finished at, above or below budget) Tulsa Vision 2025 raised $662 Million between 2003 and 2015.

Benefit: Create mass transit "spine" through the most densely populated section of the metro. Feeder bus and trolley routes could extend the reach deep into nearby neighborhoods. Would encourage medium and high density walkable development in numerous neighborhoods. With an average end to end speed including stops of 30 MPH service would take 28 minutes (this is 10 - 1 minute stops plus average speed of 46.66 MPH on the track.) Express trains running Union Station to BA Main with no stops could travel as fast as 55 mph average or about 15 minutes station to station. I believe 6 trains would equate to roughly 1 train each direction at every station every 15 minutes plus an express running each direction about once every 30-45 minutes. Increases in land value near stations plus reductions in recurring road maintenance could offset or significantly defray construction cost over a 30-50 year life. In such a scenario fares need only cover operating cost and recurring maintenance.
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« Reply #139 on: June 17, 2019, 01:56:03 pm »

Where can one find this long-range transportation plan?

http://www.incog.org/Transportation/FastForward/Final_Report_10-13-2011.pdf
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #140 on: June 17, 2019, 04:11:13 pm »


Wow, has it really been almost 8 years since FastForward?  I attended a couple of the presentations.
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #141 on: June 17, 2019, 04:18:45 pm »


Thank you.   But I don't find anything in there about Light Rail on the 11th Street corridor.  It shows Historic Street Car running on the 11th Street Corridor from Peoria to Harvard.
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patric
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« Reply #142 on: June 17, 2019, 05:04:16 pm »

When I compared it to the double track trolley from where I grew up, the freight line here looks as wide or wider in most spots than the trolley line.  I was thinking of move the freight line to one side and put light rail on the other, not light rail down the center.  The trolley line was built in the early 1900s.  Right of way regulations are probably tougher now.
https://goo.gl/maps/GDPMfrU9M72eNTNz5

What if it were a really short side-track, just long enough for commuter cars?  The at-grade crossings on 11th and Lewis would remain the same.

https://goo.gl/maps/kKa5LETQREraNH326
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #143 on: June 17, 2019, 06:31:40 pm »

Thank you.   But I don't find anything in there about Light Rail on the 11th Street corridor.  It shows Historic Street Car running on the 11th Street Corridor from Peoria to Harvard.

Correct, the most recent posts have been about 11th & Lewis being a transit-oriented development around a future rail station.  11th Street will be getting BRT after Peoria.
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #144 on: June 17, 2019, 08:48:24 pm »

Correct, the most recent posts have been about 11th & Lewis being a transit-oriented development around a future rail station.  11th Street will be getting BRT after Peoria.

So, when you said "Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan" . . . ?
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« Reply #145 on: June 17, 2019, 09:00:36 pm »

So, when you said "Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan" . . . ?

The existing rail corridor that runs from downtown Tulsa to Broken Arrow
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #146 on: June 18, 2019, 08:13:40 am »

The existing rail corridor that runs from downtown Tulsa to Broken Arrow

For the record, there is no light rail planned for that corridor either.
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ELG4America
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« Reply #147 on: June 18, 2019, 08:47:21 am »

For the record, there is no light rail planned for that corridor either.

Envisioned but no, not planned.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2019, 08:14:30 am »

Light rail would be awesome, but very expensive initial setup. As ELG4America, so are streets, but for some reason our society can't fathom spending that much money on something that isn't a highway.

Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles. Whenever that becomes an option, city leaders need to be on the forefront of bringing those here (as do citizens). Imagine having a fleet of self-driving and self-recharging vehicles that are available on demand any time of day. That should bring transportation costs down so that those who have no vehicle can have a safe reliable (and should be more affordable) way to get around. Driverless cars could further save by having users schedule ahead of time so that an electric van/bus could pickup multiple people headed the same way. Uber has had car-share/carpool option in some cities for years (but not typically worth the savings vs time lost). You take out the top cost of that service (the driver) and it becomes more economically feasible.

It's not a perfect solution, but it would be a massive step towards a less-car-centric society. However, self-driving cars could also have a reverse effect of making people not care about living towards the center because you don't have to do the driving, you can just nap or watch videos during the commute. But I think that long-term, the cost of transportation will still play enough of a factor to keep living close to downtown desirable. If carbon credits become a thing, it will be a massive boost for urban and carless living (and sadly, that might be the best solution the government can come up with to reduce climate change - as increasing taxes are the gov't fix-all).
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918superboy
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« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2019, 09:49:14 am »

Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.
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