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December 05, 2019, 09:31:28 am
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Author Topic: 11TH ST DEVELOPMENT  (Read 29723 times)
ELG4America
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« Reply #150 on: June 20, 2019, 09:36:43 am »

Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.

I had forgotten about that^ plan but now that you say it I do remember them talking about small autonomous vehicles that would make a short loop.

The INCOG report that SXSW posted has some pretty interesting details. I noted on page 55 that only 36% of respondents in a large survey agreed with the statement "We shouldnít invest in public transportation because we need to spend resources on higher priorities." Seems to indicate that a far more aggressive mass transit push would be greeted favorably by a majority of the public. Page 114 shows the cost estimates for various modes of transportation in Tulsa. Specifically note the $15-30 million estimate for commuter rail on existing track (excluding right of way costs.) That would suggest we could get the downtown to BA line up and running for between $225 million and $450 million. If the line spurred development similar to the last 10 years of development in the [Brady] Arts District we could expect $1-2 Billion in private investment over roughly 10 years.

Bringing things back around to 11th street. I believe that high quality transit is the key to this becoming a major development corridor. The problem is that TU was built too far (2 miles) from Downtown for it to be an easy walk and develop residences and retail in between. If it were closer we would have seen organic development similar to (for example) Fayetteville, AR. While 11th St. does not currently have overwhelming traffic if all development in this area remains car dependent the corridor either will not develop significantly or will be choked by traffic increases.
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« Reply #151 on: June 22, 2019, 09:23:12 pm »

I donít think the distance of TU from downtown is a big issue.  If anything it provides an eastern anchor for development along the corridor.  Iíd love to see more of the mixed-use developments popping up around 11th & Lewis move eastward past Delaware.  Maybe TU could even partner with private developers to build a more pedestrian-friendly streetscape from Delaware to Harvard.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #152 on: June 24, 2019, 12:56:34 pm »



Bringing things back around to 11th street. I believe that high quality transit is the key to this becoming a major development corridor. The problem is that TU was built too far (2 miles) from Downtown for it to be an easy walk and develop residences and retail in between. If it were closer we would have seen organic development similar to (for example) Fayetteville, AR. While 11th St. does not currently have overwhelming traffic if all development in this area remains car dependent the corridor either will not develop significantly or will be choked by traffic increases.

I don't think TU has enough students to make an impact even remotely close to what UA and its 27,000 students do to the small town of Fayetteville.

I remember going to a place across from TU after schools started back up and I asked if they had a big boost from school being back in session and they not only hadn't noticed any uptick, they had forgotten TU was even back in session. There's just so few students compared to the population of the Tulsa area. TU students do go to the food places along there (especially QT), but other than that they tend to stick to the campus.

You need far more students to effectively alter a city so that that companies can start building developments to cater to students. You can't with 4,000 seasonal students, of which 80% live on campus (So a market of about 800 students who might need housing in a city of 400,000 compared to 6,000 or so in Fayetteville city of 86,000). TU students do already patronize the downtown living options pretty well as they have done over the years. It's still a small blip compared to everyone else.

Based on the impending university apocalypse, I don't see OSU Tulsa giving downtown much of a boost either. Tulsa just has to develop on its own with little to no help from the state government or universities. It's basically up to GKFF and the corporations already working and building there.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #153 on: June 24, 2019, 01:05:02 pm »

Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.

Welcome to the board!

I hope they fulfill that option with self-driving shuttles between parking lots and other prime spots. It'll probably be a big expense up front, with charging stations and the initial offerings of new tech always being priced so high. However, the cities that jump on it early will reap big rewards.

With easily rentable/hail-able bicycles, scooters, self-driving cabs/shuttles/buses, it could finally make mass transit a realistic option for most people. Bus routes will still need to be expanded and cabs will probably remain a premium option, but still a big boost from where we are now.
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« Reply #154 on: June 24, 2019, 02:58:24 pm »

Based on the impending university apocalypse, I don't see OSU Tulsa giving downtown much of a boost either. Tulsa just has to develop on its own with little to no help from the state government or universities. It's basically up to GKFF and the corporations already working and building there.

I still have hope for OSU-Tulsa.  Even with the issues they have with the undergraduate course monopoly at TCC and Langston it still could serve as the primary graduate and research center for the OSU system.  They sit in an enviable position next to one of the fastest growing urban districts in the region.  I feel like OSU (and to an extent OU) are the final missing pieces that city and philanthropic leaders like GKFF need to target to really grow the Tulsa area.  Quality of life improvements have been a huge focus, rightfully so, but now it's up to companies expanding their workforce and that ties back to providing qualified employees.  The local universities are the logical next step in that equation.
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ELG4America
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« Reply #155 on: June 24, 2019, 04:46:06 pm »

I still have hope for OSU-Tulsa.  Even with the issues they have with the undergraduate course monopoly at TCC and Langston it still could serve as the primary graduate and research center for the OSU system.  They sit in an enviable position next to one of the fastest growing urban districts in the region.  I feel like OSU (and to an extent OU) are the final missing pieces that city and philanthropic leaders like GKFF need to target to really grow the Tulsa area.  Quality of life improvements have been a huge focus, rightfully so, but now it's up to companies expanding their workforce and that ties back to providing qualified employees.  The local universities are the logical next step in that equation.

One thing I've been thinking about recently is the possible correlation between Oklahoma's 'brain drain' and the locations of our major universities. Across the country places where graduates want to be after they graduate are also the places where they chose to attend college in the first place. Places like Austin, TX (UT) Nashville, TN (Vanderbilt) or Washington DC (Georgetown, Howard, etc.) are chosen as their college destination both for the excellent university as well as the prospect of an exciting city for life after college. When a student chooses OU or OSU, I'm not convinced they are making the same calculation. With no aspersions intended toward Norman and Stillwater, they are not super exciting vibrant cities with enormous potential for vast numbers of graduates to stay long term. Perhaps one of Oklahoma's greatest mistakes was not siting its premier Universities in its premier city. I know this will come off as Tulsa-is-the-greatest-ism but the locations that were chosen are pretty mystifying in hindsight.

The question the arises, what do we do to fix it? My answer is that we have to address the undergraduate degree granting issues. OU and OSU Tulsa need to be allowed to have full degree programs in Tulsa. It is ludicrous at this point. Second the city needs to orient itself to be and enjoyable place to be a student and a young adult. Much of that is already happening and likely won't proceed further without an influx of students. Third we need to work to provide housing that is desirable and affordable in the districts young people want to live, like the 11th St area that is the subject of this thread.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #156 on: August 07, 2019, 12:56:09 pm »

Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.


Greetings and salivations!   Welcome to the board!

Enjoy!
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« Reply #157 on: August 08, 2019, 09:33:06 am »

I like the IUPUI model but we already lost that chance by having OSU and OU with campuses several miles apart. Plus the acronym would be weird. IUPUI is known as "OO-EE-POO-EE.".  How would one pronounce OUOSUT?  "WEE-WEE-SUT?

What would make sense to me is a merger between OSU-Tulsa and TCC (at least the downtown campus). Build some housing on both ends. Freshman and sophomore classes housed at TCC (south campus), junior senior and graduate programs at OSU-Tulsa (north or Greenwood campus). Build some housing at both ends. Shuttle busses between campuses (or dare I dream a streetcar?) with emphasis on walking/biking/scooting because it's no much more than a mile.

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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #158 on: August 08, 2019, 11:21:12 am »

One thing I've been thinking about recently is the possible correlation between Oklahoma's 'brain drain' and the locations of our major universities. Across the country places where graduates want to be after they graduate are also the places where they chose to attend college in the first place. Places like Austin, TX (UT) Nashville, TN (Vanderbilt) or Washington DC (Georgetown, Howard, etc.) are chosen as their college destination both for the excellent university as well as the prospect of an exciting city for life after college. When a student chooses OU or OSU, I'm not convinced they are making the same calculation. With no aspersions intended toward Norman and Stillwater, they are not super exciting vibrant cities with enormous potential for vast numbers of graduates to stay long term. Perhaps one of Oklahoma's greatest mistakes was not siting its premier Universities in its premier city. I know this will come off as Tulsa-is-the-greatest-ism but the locations that were chosen are pretty mystifying in hindsight.

The question the arises, what do we do to fix it? My answer is that we have to address the undergraduate degree granting issues. OU and OSU Tulsa need to be allowed to have full degree programs in Tulsa. It is ludicrous at this point. Second the city needs to orient itself to be and enjoyable place to be a student and a young adult. Much of that is already happening and likely won't proceed further without an influx of students. Third we need to work to provide housing that is desirable and affordable in the districts young people want to live, like the 11th St area that is the subject of this thread.

You're spot on with this, students don't pick OSU or OU to stay in Stillwater or Norman. OU has a bit of an advantage in that it's not a far leap to move north to OKC after school but Stillwater is an hour-ish away from OKC and Tulsa.

To the other common talking points everyone focuses on is undergraduate programs in Tulsa due to the various political BS over the years. However, if you look at the demographics, Tulsa doesn't have a problem with attracting people with bachelor degrees. Where Tulsa has a particular problem demographic wise and why we fail to compete in gaining traction for relocating company's is advanced degrees (master's, etc.). We should focus 100% of our focus on building up OSU, OU in Tulsa for grow graduate programs. Where a large portion of brain drain happens is when people decide to go for advanced degrees, they typically work or are doing research at the same time and flock to larger cities like Austin, Nashville, San Fran, DC, Boston, etc.

The role TCC plays and it's ability to transfer credits really give's Tulsa a 4-year type of ability, it's just more fragmented. If we wanted to create the atmosphere of a 4-year undergrad campus, then sell the TCC Metro Campus and build a few TCC buildings on the OSU campus, and a few on the OU campus and bam - 4 year university set up and you're creating better synergy by combining all levels of undergraduate students but allowing the current administrative set up to still exist instead of trying to fight it. TCC students go to class in the TCC buildings on those campuses and when they transfer they're still essentially on the same campus. This would make student housing more desirable to build and increase student density on these campus' which would facility better private development around them.

OSU and OU frankly aren't living up to their potential in terms of advanced education programs compared to other universities - just use Oregon as an example with how many graduate students there are between UO, OSU, and Portland State & University. They do a great job at pulling students up from California like we can from Texas and down from Washington and Oregon has a similar population size to Oklahoma. The ability to pull in people seeking education is what helped create the Portland of today and why it's so desirable for many.

The most educated cities are the one's thriving, and the mid-size cities that have lots of advanced degree options (Nashville, Austin, Columbus, Denver, Portland, etc.) have been the one's to see booming population growth because companies have flocked to these cities for talent. Tulsa's key to ever breaking out of our current mold is to facility growth in OU, OSU, TU, etc. in advanced degrees that aren't currently being offered in Tulsa and are huge money makers currently in Stillwater, Norman like undergrad programs are and that would have considerably less political fight and resistance than continuing to fight over why we don't have a full four-year undergrad campus - which is really not as big of an impediment to job growth in Tulsa as many think. Our lack of advanced degree options and population with them has been.     
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Conan71
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« Reply #159 on: August 15, 2019, 11:09:55 am »

I like the IUPUI model but we already lost that chance by having OSU and OU with campuses several miles apart. Plus the acronym would be weird. IUPUI is known as "OO-EE-POO-EE.".  How would one pronounce OUOSUT?  "WEE-WEE-SUT?

What would make sense to me is a merger between OSU-Tulsa and TCC (at least the downtown campus). Build some housing on both ends. Freshman and sophomore classes housed at TCC (south campus), junior senior and graduate programs at OSU-Tulsa (north or Greenwood campus). Build some housing at both ends. Shuttle busses between campuses (or dare I dream a streetcar?) with emphasis on walking/biking/scooting because it's no much more than a mile.



That is the most logical solution and I've been pushing this notion for 30+ years.  The Board of Regents will never allow this to happen, which is very unfortunate.  Tulsa is one of the largest metro areas in the country without a major public four-plus year university.

To further the point someone else was making about destination cities when people choose a school is looking at the great medical community in Albuquerque where we've got the UNM med school.  I don't personally care for ABQ but a lot of students choose to stay there or scatter into nearby areas because of the lifestyle and close proximity to all sorts of outdoor adventure.
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« Reply #160 on: September 30, 2019, 06:34:52 pm »


OSU and OU frankly aren't living up to their potential in terms of advanced education programs compared to other universities - just use Oregon as an example with how many graduate students there are between UO, OSU, and Portland State & University. They do a great job at pulling students up from California like we can from Texas and down from Washington and Oregon has a similar population size to Oklahoma. The ability to pull in people seeking education is what helped create the Portland of today and why it's so desirable for many.

The most educated cities are the one's thriving, and the mid-size cities that have lots of advanced degree options (Nashville, Austin, Columbus, Denver, Portland, etc.) have been the one's to see booming population growth because companies have flocked to these cities for talent. Tulsa's key to ever breaking out of our current mold is to facility growth in OU, OSU, TU, etc. in advanced degrees that aren't currently being offered in Tulsa and are huge money makers currently in Stillwater, Norman like undergrad programs are and that would have considerably less political fight and resistance than continuing to fight over why we don't have a full four-year undergrad campus - which is really not as big of an impediment to job growth in Tulsa as many think. Our lack of advanced degree options and population with them has been.      


Oregon has a draw all right - not sure I understand it, but one of the kids went there after OSU for MS degree several years ago.  Launched her career like a rocket!   Til then, had been piddling around with the typical O & G circle of employers in the OK/TX/NM/CO areas.  Now, has been to several different companies, couple different coasts, several industries, latest is putting her into VP position mid next year.  

I started the 'push' of pressure a couple years ago for the next new manufacturing plant they build away from Palo Alto.  Can't hurt to try.  But I heard exactly the same thing I have heard from a dozen or more other people - "Nobody wants to come to Tulsa as a destination..."   From a kid born and raised here!  She understands...   For conventions, conferences, high level executive meetings, etc.   Would be great for us - foot in the door of high end biomedical equipment world.  


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« Reply #161 on: November 01, 2019, 12:53:39 pm »

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-announces-four-tenants-for-shops-at-mother-road-market

Quote
In Spring 2020, customers will be able to shop at these new exciting concepts (alphabetical order):

Eleanorís Bookshop, owned by Kelsey and Matt McAfee: Founded by two Tulsa teachers, Eleanor's Bookshop is a children's and young adult bookstore with a mission to foster a lifelong love of reading in young people. To learn more, visit www.eleanorsbookshop.com, and follow on Instagram/Facebook at @eleanorsbookshop.

Felizsta, owned by Jason and Lizette Corcoran: Felizsta is a new expression from the two words "Feliz" and "Fiesta" translating into "Happy Party!" Felizsta is a modern, sophisticated, fun shop that celebrates Latin American food, design and culture; with an emphasis on authentic Mexican cookies. Felizsta is also a graduate of the Kitchen 66 Launch Program, another program of LTFF. To learn more, visit www.felizsta.com, and follow on Instagram/Facebook @felizsta.  

Graham Collective, owned by Dalton and Makaela Graham: Graham Collective is a local wellness and lifestyle shop that focuses on affordable clean beauty, organic skincare, and nontoxic living. To learn more, visit www.grahamcollectivetulsa.com, and follow on Instagram at @graham_collective and Facebook at @grahamcollective.

Oklahoma Distilling Co. | Cocktail Co., owned by Hunter Stone Gambill: Tulsaís premier bartending supply store and bottle shop with a tasting bar featuring independent spirits and wine from boutique producers. Staffed by mixologists and sommeliers, Cocktail Co. will offer fun, educational events, as well as assistance in selecting the right libations for any occasion. To learn more, visit www.okdistilling.com and follow on Instagram at @cocktailco and Facebook at @cocktailcotulsa.





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BKDotCom
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« Reply #162 on: November 01, 2019, 07:58:56 pm »

Is it just me, or is that image potato?
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #163 on: November 04, 2019, 03:20:44 pm »

Is it just me, or is that image potato?

It looks fine to me.
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