Vision 2025 Extension - Package Details

[johrasephoenix]

The BRT looks freaking awesome.  I'm really hoping that the BRT buses include bike racks out front so I can bike to the stop then hop on the bus.

Also - they did something like this in Austin.  The streets it ran on are much, much more congested than Peoria so the lack of dedicated right of way was an obvious drawback. 

BUT - in cities like Austin and Tulsa the cityscape along most of Peoria (or Lamar in Austin) is meant for cars.  As part of this they should strongly encourage much denser development along Peoria...  Apartments/commercial space should be oriented towards the street and front it. 

Pretty awesome. 

[carltonplace]

What is the proposed interval between buses? I can't seem to locate that.

[dsjeffries]

What is the proposed interval between buses? I can't seem to locate that.

I read somewhere they're planning for 15 minute intervals on the Peoria BRT.

...BUT - in cities like Austin and Tulsa the cityscape along most of Peoria (or Lamar in Austin) is meant for cars.  As part of this they should strongly encourage much denser development along Peoria...  Apartments/commercial space should be oriented towards the street and front it.

That's one of my hopes along both corridors - quality, denser, mixed-use developments. This project is one of the most transformative of the entire Vision package.

[Stanley1]

ha...SEPERATED. lets use that word.

But this is what im talking about

Ideal:




More realistic:

Tulsa doesn't need that.

[TheArtist]

You couldn't put that on Brookside or Cherry Street without wiping out half the buildings. 

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

You couldn't put that on Brookside or Cherry Street without wiping out half the buildings. 

Well it's not planned to go down Cherry Street but it is supposed to pass through Brookside. You're correct that it's much too narrow through there. But the point is moot anyway because they've already said they're not doing dedicated lanes.

[PonderInc]

Tulsa doesn't need that.

Yeah, Tulsa doesn't need to improve our transportation options. Single car, single driver is great for everyone . The most inefficient, most expensive, most damaging to the environment, most reliant on foreign oil, and most unhealthy transportation choice is best for all of us. It's also great if we continue to waste half our land on parking lots, because that really generates money for schools... </end sarcasm>

Tulsa needs the BRT, buses, bike lanes, and sidewalks ...and smart land use policies if we ever want to live up to our potential as a city. Multi modal transportation options create opportunity, equality, flexibility and resilience. Car-only transportation means we can never be more than we are today. Is that good enough? I sure hope not.

[Red Arrow]

Tulsa doesn't need that.

Are you saying we don't need public transit improvements?

Are you saying we don't need grade separated or dedicated lanes?

I think when Tulsa is ready for grade separated or dedicated lanes, we might as well invest in fixed rail.  Actually, I'd like to see fixed rail even in the street but I understand the reluctance to spend the up-front money.

[Red Arrow]

But this is what im talking about

Ideal:

Replace the rubber tired buses with steel wheel trolleys on fixed rails and I'll agree.

"BRT" is more within our reach due to the initial investment.  Fixed rail can be less expensive over the life of the system.  I put "BRT" in quotes because without grade separated right-of-way, it's really just a fancy bus.  To be fair, trolleys running in the street wouldn't be much faster.  Fixed rail can have bigger passenger draw and more Transit Oriented Development since the route is more difficult to change than with buses of any kind.

All sorts of info (biased toward rail of course) here:
http://www.lightrailnow.org

This is how to get to Philadelphia from where I grew up.
https://goo.gl/maps/RuPMkFaNEAr

[johrasephoenix]

Its also a concentrated transit investment.  Get transit it working in one part of the city really well rather than trying to spread the love everywhere (an important but ultimately longer term goal).

[carltonplace]

Tulsa doesn't need that.

If you've ever waited for a bus in this town (about an hour) you would take a different stance. Check out some of the bus stops at rush hour and see how packed some of them are.

Other cities recognize the need to get people around without their cars, even car loving places like Dallas and Denver. At this point Tulsa is so far behind I'm not sure we can catch up, and we sure can't make any headway with our current mayor and his love of sprawl and highways.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You couldn't put that on Brookside or Cherry Street without wiping out half the buildings.  

Close Brookside and Cherry Streets to auto traffic.  Dedicated BRT roads only.

We've done it with Main street repeatedly...  we have made this type of change before - all the interstates through town have closed roads.

[DowntownDan]

If you've ever waited for a bus in this town (about an hour) you would take a different stance. Check out some of the bus stops at rush hour and see how packed some of them are.

Other cities recognize the need to get people around without their cars, even car loving places like Dallas and Denver. At this point Tulsa is so far behind I'm not sure we can catch up, and we sure can't make any headway with our current mayor and his love of sprawl and highways.

Tulsa doesn't have the population growth of those cities.  We need young people to come here if there is ever going to be a change in how the voters advocate for transportation.  The old guard, who still dominates this city, don't care about transit.  They love their cars and wouldn't use transit if it stopped right in front of their house.  We also don't have the kind of traffic problems as Dallas and Houston that is forcing them to rethink highways and transportation.  When a 10 mile commute takes 30-45 minutes, you don't really have a choice.  We don't have that problem in Tulsa and with population stagnant, we won't for the foreseeable future.  Young people are leaving more than they're coming in it seems (it's at least somewhere even).  If that doesn't change, this conversation is meaningless.  This isn't the place to discuss why I think we're in this position because it gets very political. Nevertheless, here's an interesting read about Dallas and its transportation problems that is forcing it to rethink some things.  They aren't as progressive on the issue as you might think.

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2016/02/dallas-deck-parks-may-be-the-new-thing-but-expanded-highways-will-keep-coming.html/

[carltonplace]

Young people are moving to places with better transit choices, better urban housing choices and better core density where everything they need is right outside their door.

If Tulsa wants to compete then we need to change the old guard way of thinking. The current mayor is the majordomo of that guard.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Tulsa doesn't have the population growth of those cities.  We need young people to come here if there is ever going to be a change in how the voters advocate for transportation.  The old guard, who still dominates this city, don't care about transit.  They love their cars and wouldn't use transit if it stopped right in front of their house.  We also don't have the kind of traffic problems as Dallas and Houston that is forcing them to rethink highways and transportation.  When a 10 mile commute takes 30-45 minutes, you don't really have a choice.  We don't have that problem in Tulsa and with population stagnant, we won't for the foreseeable future.  Young people are leaving more than they're coming in it seems (it's at least somewhere even).  If that doesn't change, this conversation is meaningless.  This isn't the place to discuss why I think we're in this position because it gets very political. Nevertheless, here's an interesting read about Dallas and its transportation problems that is forcing it to rethink some things.  They aren't as progressive on the issue as you might think.

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2016/02/dallas-deck-parks-may-be-the-new-thing-but-expanded-highways-will-keep-coming.html/

Not just young people...that's an ageist statement!!   I would love to have access to reasonable transit of ALL kinds - city, state, national.  And would use it most of the time if available.  Have a few particular routes that I follow that would be ideal for this, here and in OKC.  The BRT would cater to a huge amount - 75% or more - of my Tulsa travel.  Get to go to BA regularly, so a route down that way would be nice, too.  (The other 25% or so...)  

OKC I-35 corridor from downtown to Norman would be great!  The Heartland Flyer route is very good, but something exactly on the I-35 corridor would be ideal.  For me and about 60,000 a day who come in from the south.  And if extended it to Edmond - same I-35 corridor - could accommodate another 60k.

I-44 from Tulsa to OKC - connecting to BRT at both ends -  Heaven for transportation!!  I would essentially never drive a car during the work week!  

And I'm OLD... I have voted against that old guard every step of the way.  People complain perpetually about their nonsense.   And yet, somehow, they just keep getting elected.  Nothing is gonna happen when we keep electing the Dewey types - both here in Tulsa and statewide.  And nationally for that matter....


If ya want progress...ya gotta vote for a Progressive... it ain't gonna happen any other way!  Everything else is regressive.