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January 22, 2021, 03:54:25 am
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Author Topic: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....  (Read 97956 times)
SXSW
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« Reply #360 on: January 02, 2021, 03:40:43 pm »

The core of Utica Square is great as is and could remain the same.  Itís the fringes that need to be rebuilt starting with the NW corner.  Demolish Prosperity Bank and rebuild that corner with a strip of retail facing the interior street where Dog Dish, Salt, etc are located.  Then start working on the southern sections incorporating apartments and/or condos over retail.  Finally redevelop the NE corner where Chicoís/Vast Bank are located.  The perfect spot for a hotel is the H&P property at 21st & Utica.  Areas along Utica south of 15th are ripe for new residential midrises overlooking Swan Lake with downtown views.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #361 on: January 11, 2021, 01:49:17 pm »

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Food trucks/trailers!

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

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DowntownDan
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« Reply #362 on: January 12, 2021, 11:56:39 am »

The core of Utica Square is great as is and could remain the same.  Itís the fringes that need to be rebuilt starting with the NW corner.  Demolish Prosperity Bank and rebuild that corner with a strip of retail facing the interior street where Dog Dish, Salt, etc are located.  Then start working on the southern sections incorporating apartments and/or condos over retail.  Finally redevelop the NE corner where Chicoís/Vast Bank are located.  The perfect spot for a hotel is the H&P property at 21st & Utica.  Areas along Utica south of 15th are ripe for new residential midrises overlooking Swan Lake with downtown views.

It's frustrating to see great lots stay vacant for so long. This spot is prime for development, as is the lot at 14th and Utica. But they just sit there with nothing while cheap hotels continue to expand in the south, including underneath highway ramps (ala Hwy 169 and 91st st).
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #363 on: January 12, 2021, 04:27:27 pm »

It's frustrating to see great lots stay vacant for so long. This spot is prime for development, as is the lot at 14th and Utica. But they just sit there with nothing while cheap hotels continue to expand in the south, including underneath highway ramps (ala Hwy 169 and 91st st).

Part of the reason Utica is in its current position is because it is owned by an oil company and not a real estate company. After Sr.'s death there really does seem to be nothing happening. I have very little info what has gone on lately with decisions related to this and Utica Square directly.

Part of what Oil Capital brought up about an old statement of mine a few days ago ignored all of that discussion since... at one point Utica Square was really getting its groove back it seemed. Lots of new tenants and lots of demand. Right around the time they demoed this building was the very end of that. Between oil prices collapsing, the death in the family, etc. it seems that they shifted focus elsewhere (likely toward keeping H&P from a bad fate like so many other O&G firms) and Utica Square and other real estate investments have been a side project for that family for a long time.

Hopefully they sell it to a local ownership group at some point who will treat this as a full time trophy/legacy property versus just a side business. Most likely if they end up selling it (not that there's any credible rumor I know of) it will go to a company like Simon. I really do think that would be the only short term way we'd see a big reinvestment in the center... but it will probably hobble along the way it is now for a few more years unfortunately, because it really is under utilized. I'd almost prefer it to be in the state it is now and hope for better local management in the future than have Simon or others come in and ruin it.
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #364 on: January 12, 2021, 04:47:07 pm »

Part of the reason Utica is in its current position is because it is owned by an oil company and not a real estate company. After Sr.'s death there really does seem to be nothing happening. I have very little info what has gone on lately with decisions related to this and Utica Square directly.


Being owned by an oil company is also part of the reason Utica Square is/was as good as it is/was.  It seems the new generation may have tired of subsidizing Sr's vanity project.  They really should try to unload it while they still have Saks... and Restoration Hardware.

Interesting note in their 2020 Annual Report:  "During the fiscal year ended September 30, 2020, we closed on the sale of a portion of our real estate investment portfolio, including six industrial sites."

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« Reply #365 on: January 12, 2021, 05:28:46 pm »

Hopefully they sell it to a local ownership group at some point who will treat this as a full time trophy/legacy property versus just a side business. Most likely if they end up selling it (not that there's any credible rumor I know of) it will go to a company like Simon. I really do think that would be the only short term way we'd see a big reinvestment in the center... but it will probably hobble along the way it is now for a few more years unfortunately, because it really is under utilized. I'd almost prefer it to be in the state it is now and hope for better local management in the future than have Simon or others come in and ruin it.

That's what happened with Highland Park Village in Dallas, and it is in great shape.  Somewhat similar to Utica Square but smaller and much more upscale, but has some mixed-use elements like a grocery store and movie theater.
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #366 on: January 12, 2021, 05:50:41 pm »

That's what happened with Highland Park Village in Dallas, and it is in great shape.  Somewhat similar to Utica Square but smaller and much more upscale, but has some mixed-use elements like a grocery store and movie theater.

True.  But you understate it.  Highland Park Village, including its theater and "grocery store" are much much much more upscale than Utica Square.  Utica Square could benefit from local ownership dedicated solely to Utica Square, but we should not be expecting any owner, local or not, to deliver us anything like Highland Park Village.
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« Reply #367 on: January 12, 2021, 09:38:34 pm »

True.  But you understate it.  Highland Park Village, including its theater and "grocery store" are much much much more upscale than Utica Square.  Utica Square could benefit from local ownership dedicated solely to Utica Square, but we should not be expecting any owner, local or not, to deliver us anything like Highland Park Village.

HPV is pretty much exclusively upscale.  Utica Square is a mix which I prefer.  Add some more density and mixed-use and it could be really great. 
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