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July 09, 2020, 10:33:46 am
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Author Topic: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas  (Read 29001 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2015, 09:06:04 am »

Uranus, Friendly Bear, Aoxomoxoa, Teatownclown, FOTD, there were others I can’t recall now. All the same person.  I didn’t have a problem with his views and actually agreed with him more than not. But his overwhelming shtick was unhinged mocking condescension with a dash of racism. He was very tiring.

Davazz on the other hand was bigoted and elitist. His overwhelming shtick also was unhinged mocking condescension but his version had a whole helping of thinly veiled racism. Man he hated himself some poor people, usually non-white poor people.

Then there was Pluto/Shadows. Poor Neptune was surrounded.

Anyway, back on topic.

Rock Chalk!

We are talking Kansas, right?


99% sure Friendly Bear wasn’t Aox.  FB made some pretty nasty comments about George Kaiser which seemed to be anti-semetic.  Since Aox’s family came from similar lineage, pretty sure it wasn’t him.  I’m guessing Shadows may have crossed to the next dimension, we haven’t heard from him in a few years.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2015, 09:26:20 am »

"Here’s Woeful New Economic Report Gov. Sam Brownback Doesn’t Want Kansans to See" - The Kansas City Star, 8/31/2015

The guy ran on a platform of getting Kansas ahead economically. His staff would publish this report on their website with taglines about how HIS administration was going to change the economic climate in Kansas.  And he did - slashing taxes, cutting liberal education spending, reducing quality of life spending, etc. Which made the climate overall much worse in Kansas. And the economy tanked.

All of a sudden, they don't post the report and they don't reference it.

Surely our leadership is taking notes from Kansas, learning how to hide failure.


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« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2015, 09:55:25 am »

"Here’s Woeful New Economic Report Gov. Sam Brownback Doesn’t Want Kansans to See" - The Kansas City Star, 8/31/2015

The guy ran on a platform of getting Kansas ahead economically. His staff would publish this report on their website with taglines about how HIS administration was going to change the economic climate in Kansas.  And he did - slashing taxes, cutting liberal education spending, reducing quality of life spending, etc. Which made the climate overall much worse in Kansas. And the economy tanked.

All of a sudden, they don't post the report and they don't reference it.

Surely our leadership is taking notes from Kansas, learning how to hide failure.




If oil doesn't rebound, we might make Kansas look good next year.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2015, 01:24:12 pm »

Why we can't learn to live within our means, and learn that oil is a boom or bust industry, is truly striking. Our politicians with oil money are like the alcoholic who only works until he has enough to drink, then quits and spends it all... only to realize he messed up and beg for his job back.

"Hey oil is high, we're frikken rich! We can surely cut taxes and still pay for deferred maintenance on all our infrastructure and get our schools up to the regional standard. No way oil falls this time!"
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2015, 01:32:50 pm »


The guy ran on a platform of getting Kansas ahead economically. His staff would publish this report on their website with taglines about how HIS administration was going to change the economic climate in Kansas.  And he did - slashing taxes, cutting liberal education spending, reducing quality of life spending, etc. Which made the climate overall much worse in Kansas. And the economy tanked.

All of a sudden, they don't post the report and they don't reference it.

Surely our leadership is taking notes from Kansas, learning how to hide failure.



Our leadership can't learn anything real from anyone.  I have family who moved here from Kansas, and as with most things they are astonished at both extremes - how OK is better than KS and how OK is so much worse than KS.  Lotta crazy to go around in both places - just seems to cover different "bases".


Diversion;
Can't fault Aox on musical taste, though.  Good stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfjjwlPGBAI

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« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2015, 01:30:10 pm »

Oklahoma Treasurer: Major Revenue Streams Down in October

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-major-revenue-streams-down-october

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OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma finance officials are reporting more grim fiscal news, with every major revenue stream to the state's treasury declining last month compared to the same month in 2014.

State Treasurer Ken Miller released figures on Tuesday that shows collections to the state treasury in October totaled $918 million. That figure is $95 million, or about 9 percent, less than October 2014.

It's the sixth consecutive month that gross receipts to the treasury were lower than the same month in 2014.

All of the major revenue streams contracted for the month, including oil and natural gas production taxes, motor vehicle taxes, income taxes and sales taxes.

Miller says the decline is attributable to a "spillover effect" from low oil prices. Benchmark U.S. crude closed Tuesday at $47.90 a barrel.
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Conan71
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« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2015, 04:31:05 pm »


Definite sign to the legislature we need to cut taxes more.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2015, 05:34:12 pm »

I call shenanigans. We are producing more gas and more oil. While oil prices are down, the increase in production should help offset the decrease in price. We have more residents earning more money. The massive deficits is not "due to the oil bust," it is due to lies, deceit, and mismanagement. Even if oil revenues would have stayed steady, we would still be hundreds of millions in the hole.

Fun facts:
- gas production is up 25% since 2010  (natural gas prices are about where they were in 2010)
- Oklahoma oil production has nearly doubled since 2010 (the price of oil is 62% of what it was in 2010)

By the numbers, we should easily be drawing more revenue from gas than we did in 2010. We should be losing a little, but not a ton of money on oil revenue compared to 2010 (prices down, production up). It is possible that the latest production numbers are WAY, WAY down... but I doubt it. Shutting down an existing well doesn't make sense for most producers. The guys I know involved haven't shut wells down anyway.

That is to say, unless some sort of tax breaks went into effect for new oil and gas production. If we reduced the standard tax rate from 7% to 2%, and extended tax breaks for horizontal drilling... that might help explain why we are broke.

Or if we eviscerated our tax base with tax cuts, reducing revenue from nearly 50% of all sources, that might explain why we are broke. Too bad no one saw this coming. I mean, its not like we predicted a $600,000,000 budget shortfall when we voted to put the cuts in to place. It would be horrible if such cuts were sold arguing they would increase state revenues at a time when the State already faced a $100mil plus deficit, surely no elected official would make such a statement.


I think if we cut education a bit more we might have citizens so uneducated they don't realize what the (-) means. Politicians can then claim fiscal responsibility, declare victory, give themselves raises, and pass a constitutional amendment declaring themselves benevolent rulers for life.

Oil busts in Oklahoma are a guarantee. It isn't if, it is when. Did we really expect oil/gas revenue to pick up all the slack? Add in repeated tax cuts and continued tax loopholes (including for what was then BOOMING oil and gas producers) and the outcome was easily predictable.

I'm going to quit my job and then act SHOCKED when checks start bouncing...
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Conan71
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2015, 09:16:12 pm »

I call shenanigans. We are producing more gas and more oil. While oil prices are down, the increase in production should help offset the decrease in price. We have more residents earning more money. The massive deficits is not "due to the oil bust," it is due to lies, deceit, and mismanagement. Even if oil revenues would have stayed steady, we would still be hundreds of millions in the hole.

Fun facts:
- gas production is up 25% since 2010  (natural gas prices are about where they were in 2010)
- Oklahoma oil production has nearly doubled since 2010 (the price of oil is 62% of what it was in 2010)

By the numbers, we should easily be drawing more revenue from gas than we did in 2010. We should be losing a little, but not a ton of money on oil revenue compared to 2010 (prices down, production up). It is possible that the latest production numbers are WAY, WAY down... but I doubt it. Shutting down an existing well doesn't make sense for most producers. The guys I know involved haven't shut wells down anyway.

That is to say, unless some sort of tax breaks went into effect for new oil and gas production. If we reduced the standard tax rate from 7% to 2%, and extended tax breaks for horizontal drilling... that might help explain why we are broke.

Or if we eviscerated our tax base with tax cuts, reducing revenue from nearly 50% of all sources, that might explain why we are broke. Too bad no one saw this coming. I mean, its not like we predicted a $600,000,000 budget shortfall when we voted to put the cuts in to place. It would be horrible if such cuts were sold arguing they would increase state revenues at a time when the State already faced a $100mil plus deficit, surely no elected official would make such a statement.


I think if we cut education a bit more we might have citizens so uneducated they don't realize what the (-) means. Politicians can then claim fiscal responsibility, declare victory, give themselves raises, and pass a constitutional amendment declaring themselves benevolent rulers for life.

Oil busts in Oklahoma are a guarantee. It isn't if, it is when. Did we really expect oil/gas revenue to pick up all the slack? Add in repeated tax cuts and continued tax loopholes (including for what was then BOOMING oil and gas producers) and the outcome was easily predictable.

I'm going to quit my job and then act SHOCKED when checks start bouncing...

Are taxes on oil a flat amount per bbl or are they a percent of the sales price?

Natural gas prices have been relatively flat since 2010 (seasonal changes excepted).  If production is up, there should definitely be more tax revenue.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2015, 08:20:25 am »

It is 2% of the produced value at the wellhead for the first three years, 7% thereafter, unless other incentives apply (which they will, after 3 years you can "enhance" the well and apply for secondary recovery tax breaks).

The production rate was set at 7% for decades. Special incentives went into play for directional drilling, when Oklahoma production started falling off and oil prices were down (late 1994), that allowed producers to be taxed at 1% until the well paid off (essentially, the state assumed some of the risk of the producer).  When the boom came back and fracking made old wells profitable and new wells possible, the tax break was set to automatically expire and the rate was set to go back to 7%. Instead of letting it expire our benevolent overlords expanded it to include all new production for 3 years at a rate of 2%. There are other incentives, payments, and exemptions for various wells.

Remember, if we didn't cut production taxes on oil and gas --- they would have just move their oil wells to Wisconsin.

Somehow Texas is able to tax production at 4.6% plus a penny per barrel for environmental assessment. Alaska has a base 35% production tax + up to 5 cents per barrel environmental fee.   Louisiana has a base rate of 12%. Many states add in environmental taxes, ad valorem taxes, and other various revenue streams. Like everything else, Oklahoma has convinced ourselves that the only way we can compete is by being cheaper than everyone else

Oil and gas severance is less than 7% of Oklahoma's tax revenue. We rely on oil and gas tax a little more than Colorado does. So blaming the revenue from oil and gas after slashing the tax, banking on record setting prices, and knowing it is a limited part of our revenue - is not a serious statement.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2015, 02:18:26 pm »

Wow, cannon...you are starting to sound like me...  Be careful with that - you might become outcast!
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« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2015, 04:47:07 pm »

Falling Oil Prices Hit Levels Not Seen Since 2009

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/falling-oil-prices-hit-levels-not-seen-2009

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Oil prices fell to their lowest levels in seven years, after OPEC officials failed to agree Friday on how to address the global supply glut.

By midday Monday, Brent crude futures fell 5 percent to $40.68 a barrel, the lowest price since 2009. The U.S. oil benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude dropped below $38 a barrel.

The decline sent energy stocks such as ExxonMobil, Chevron and Royal Dutch Shell tumbling, and helped drag the major stock indexes down sharply.

Oil prices have fallen more than 40 percent in the past year, as the industry confronts a worldwide oversupply problem. If Iranian sanctions are lifted, global production is expected to increase further.

OPEC officials held a seven-hour meeting Friday in Vienna to discuss whether to limit production, but the meeting turned rancorous and no agreement was reached.

"Any tiny risk that OPEC actually might do something during the next 6 months is completely off the table after Friday's meeting. With this risk out of the picture, the oil price declines further," said Bjarne Schieldrop, chief commodities analyst at SEB Markets, in a note quoted by The Wall Street Journal.

The falling oil prices are a boon for consumers, who are paying less for gasoline and heating oil, but it has been a brutal time for the energy business.

Sarah Emerson, managing director of consulting company ESAI Energy, told Bloomberg News, "We're in the midst of the worst." She went on to say:

"I think we'll be looking at a very different market in the next few months. Once there's more evidence that production is falling prices will start to recover."
But for now, a lot of investors are betting that prices will keep falling. The Financial Times reported that:

"Hedge funds are holding a near-record 'short' derivative positions equivalent to almost 360m barrels of crude that will benefit if prices fall.
"The bets come as many analysts see the oil glut extending well into 2016, as Opec members try to undermine higher-cost rivals. Output outside the cartel is expected to dip next year, but production from US shale, Canadian tar sands and other unconventional sources has proved more resilient than many expected."

Told you that story to tell you this one:

Overall Oklahoma Revenue Collections Continue to Fall

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/overall-oklahoma-revenue-collections-continue-fall

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Overall collections to the Oklahoma treasury are continuing to slide as a downturn in the energy industry keeps sending ripples through the state's economy.

Oklahoma Treasurer Ken Miller reported Monday that for the seventh consecutive month, gross receipts to the state treasury trailed those from the same month a year ago.

Miller reported that overall gross receipts for the month of November totaled $830.8 million, which is almost 2 percent below collections from November 2014.

It's the 11th consecutive month that collections from oil and natural gas production taxes trailed those from the same month in the prior year.

Sales tax collections also were down, but income tax collections and motor vehicle tax collections both were up.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2015, 07:52:29 am »

INCOME TAX - our largest source of revenue, was actually up. Production taxes only make up 7% of the total. Yet we have a $1BIL budget shortfall.

Makes total sense.

THANK GOD YOU GOT SOME FISCAL CONSERVATIVES IN THERE TO STRAIGHTEN OUT OUR BUDGET PROBLEMS.

Liars. There is a difference between actually being fiscally conservative and just wanting to kill government revenue.
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Ed W
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« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2015, 01:27:09 pm »

One of the failed candidates for Senate District 34 said the state has a spending problen, not a revenue problem, and his plan to fix it involved "re-prioritizing" the budget. He did not delve into specifics, of course, but I took that to mean more robbing Peter to pay Paul. We've already seen money taken from education handed out as tax breaks to the wealthiest Oklahomans. Do you think that in a spirit of civic-mindedness they'd give it back?
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Conan71
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« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2015, 03:33:54 pm »

One of the failed candidates for Senate District 34 said the state has a spending problen, not a revenue problem, and his plan to fix it involved "re-prioritizing" the budget. He did not delve into specifics, of course, but I took that to mean more robbing Peter to pay Paul. We've already seen money taken from education handed out as tax breaks to the wealthiest Oklahomans. Do you think that in a spirit of civic-mindedness they'd give it back?

Was that the replacement for Brinkley (Who managed to fix his own revenue and spending problem with other’s money)?
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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