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November 30, 2021, 09:19:40 am
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Author Topic: Downtown Development Overview  (Read 691238 times)
LandArchPoke
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« Reply #1845 on: April 12, 2021, 11:12:13 am »



Updated flyer as well, noting 50% preleased too on the south building
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SXSW
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« Reply #1846 on: April 12, 2021, 02:29:55 pm »

Not sure who the tenant(s) is/are, but there are pre leases for approximately 20,000 sq. ft. on the 4th and 3rd floors. Only spaces left is for the 2nd floor. Not sure if the retail on the first floor has been leased or not. At least that's what I've heard through the grapevine and the spaces for both those areas have been removed from Costar and other places too so I'm pretty sure it is legit.

There will be an almost identical building built just north of this one too. This is Pearl Ridge south and there is a planned 'north' building too of the same size built toward 8th.

I don't believe they have started actually site work just yet, but I believe it will start soon especially if March 2022 is the timeline which is what was updated to delivery in Costar as well.

Good to hear.  They will have some of the best skyline views.  Some housing along there would be great to see as well to go with the new development on the east side of Peoria.
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tulsabug
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« Reply #1847 on: April 13, 2021, 03:33:00 am »



Updated flyer as well, noting 50% preleased too on the south building

Not a fan of the mini-storage look of the buildings but the blue at least gives them a little character. I'm glad someone is finally doing something with those lots though they seem to be ignoring the tenants will have a much better view of the cemetery than the downtown skyline. Wonder what they're going to do with all the power and phone lines that run down Peoria on that side?
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« Reply #1848 on: April 13, 2021, 09:01:57 am »

^ The brick should look pretty good.  The renderings show ground floor retail space which is what the Peoria corridor needs in this area.  This combined with the existing cluster around 6th and the retail/restaurant space planned on the ground floor of the second phase of Village Flats at 7th will make a big difference. 

Agree on the power lines but unfortunately I don't think they are going anywhere soon.  They can certainly work them into a new streetscape though like what they've done further south in Brookside.  The current streetscape (or lack thereof) along Peoria north of the BA is not pedestrian-oriented.  That needs to change for this corridor to really flourish. 
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #1849 on: April 13, 2021, 10:52:30 am »

Not a fan of the mini-storage look of the buildings but the blue at least gives them a little character. I'm glad someone is finally doing something with those lots though they seem to be ignoring the tenants will have a much better view of the cemetery than the downtown skyline. Wonder what they're going to do with all the power and phone lines that run down Peoria on that side?

I do wish they'd do brick on the front facing side along Peoria and move whatever that grey material is to the back parking lot side... some of it will depend on what material they use and color whether it will look cheap or not.

^ The brick should look pretty good.  The renderings show ground floor retail space which is what the Peoria corridor needs in this area.  This combined with the existing cluster around 6th and the retail/restaurant space planned on the ground floor of the second phase of Village Flats at 7th will make a big difference. 

Agree on the power lines but unfortunately I don't think they are going anywhere soon.  They can certainly work them into a new streetscape though like what they've done further south in Brookside.  The current streetscape (or lack thereof) along Peoria north of the BA is not pedestrian-oriented.  That needs to change for this corridor to really flourish. 

I think this part of Peoria could really use a road diet as well (similar to what was done on 11th and 3rd). Adding on street parking along the east side of the street at least and narrowing it from 4 to 3 lanes would make the area a lot more pedestrian friendly. The traffic counts along Peoria past 13th doesn't really justify having 4 lanes.
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #1850 on: April 13, 2021, 11:44:50 am »

I think this part of Peoria could really use a road diet as well (similar to what was done on 11th and 3rd). Adding on street parking along the east side of the street at least and narrowing it from 4 to 3 lanes would make the area a lot more pedestrian friendly. The traffic counts along Peoria past 13th doesn't really justify having 4 lanes.

I like the concept of road diets, but doing one on this stretch of Peoria wouldn't mix very well with the new AERO bus service, would it?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 11:54:01 am by Oil Capital » Logged

 
LandArchPoke
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« Reply #1851 on: April 13, 2021, 02:34:40 pm »

I like the concept of road diets, but doing one on this stretch of Peoria wouldn't mix very well with the new AERO bus service, would it?

The next "BRT" line is going to go on 11th, which has already gotten a similar type of road diet. So only doing a road diet on Peoria just north of the BA to about 244 wouldn't really make much difference to the service. There's not enough traffic on that portion anyways that would really delay the busses much. Having wider/safer feeling sidewalks and pedestrian environments along the route is more important. You have to get people to walk to the stop and actually use it for it to be a success. Having more shoulder area too after a road diet, then you can carve out bus loading lanes that would reduce delays as well to traffic behind the bus. Which is also much safer removing them from through lanes while loading/on-loading than the current 4 lanes and having the bus block one, you get a lot of impatient people who weave into other lanes, cut people off, etc. when busses stop.
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #1852 on: April 13, 2021, 02:48:37 pm »

The next "BRT" line is going to go on 11th, which has already gotten a similar type of road diet. So only doing a road diet on Peoria just north of the BA to about 244 wouldn't really make much difference to the service. There's not enough traffic on that portion anyways that would really delay the busses much. Having wider/safer feeling sidewalks and pedestrian environments along the route is more important. You have to get people to walk to the stop and actually use it for it to be a success. Having more shoulder area too after a road diet, then you can carve out bus loading lanes that would reduce delays as well to traffic behind the bus. Which is also much safer removing them from through lanes while loading/on-loading than the current 4 lanes and having the bus block one, you get a lot of impatient people who weave into other lanes, cut people off, etc. when busses stop.

Fair enough, but is there room for two lanes, plus turn lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, plus bus loading lanes and on-street parking?
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« Reply #1853 on: April 13, 2021, 05:15:20 pm »

Fair enough, but is there room for two lanes, plus turn lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, plus bus loading lanes and on-street parking?

Probably something similar to how Peoria is between 33rd and 36th would be better.  They fit all of that in minus the bike lanes.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #1854 on: April 13, 2021, 08:00:03 pm »

Probably something similar to how Peoria is between 33rd and 36th would be better.  They fit all of that in minus the bike lanes.

Unfortunately there isn't enough right of way - once you're past 11th Street the ROW is about 60' including sidewalks. In Brookside it's about 80 to 90 feet depending on location. With Oaklawn Cemetery and several buildings right up to the street it'd be too expensive to widen the right of way to do something like the Brookside streetscape. Both 11th and 3rd have similar right of way as Peoria north of the BA. 11th Street, most of the ROW is about 65' or a bit larger in some places. 3rd Street is even a bit smaller, with about 55' ROW in a lot of places.

Fair enough, but is there room for two lanes, plus turn lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, plus bus loading lanes and on-street parking?

There wouldn't be enough to have two lanes (one each way), plus turn lane, plus bike, and a separate bus loading area... but if they got rid of the middle turn lane where the bus stops were for a few feet you would likely have enough room to get the busses out of the main traffic lane. Traffic engineers don't like to do this though because it causes the road to not be completely straight. Which in practice actually helps calm and slow traffic but engineers see that as a bad thing usually.

Traffic lanes/bus lanes are around 11' toward the smaller end, parking on street is about 8-9' and bike lanes are around 5-6' so you can do a combination of a variety of layouts along Peoria with 60' of right of way. On street parking is probably more important to creating a more pleasant pedestrian environment, so I'd rather see them have no turn lane to be able to have on street parking and bike lanes. You can then add small no parking zones around the bus stops and accomplish the same thing where it removes the stops from the main traffic lanes. 

Odds are if a road diet is completed on this stretch they won't add the bump out like they could, rather they will have a bus block the main flow of traffic while they're stopped and then people will use the turn lane to go around any bus that's stopped.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #1855 on: April 13, 2021, 09:26:47 pm »

Fair enough, but is there room for two lanes, plus turn lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, plus bus loading lanes and on-street parking?

Quote
For multi-lane roadways where transit or freight vehicles are present and require a wider travel lane, the wider lane should be the outside lane (curbside or next to parking). Inside lanes should continue to be designed at the minimum possible width. Major truck or transit routes through urban areas may require the use of wider lane widths.

Lane widths of 10 feet are appropriate in urban areas and have a positive impact on a street's safety without impacting traffic operations. For designated truck or transit routes, one travel lane of 11 feet may be used in each direction. In select cases, narrower travel lanes (9–9.5 feet) can be effective as through lanes in conjunction with a turn lane.

https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/lane-width/#:~:text=wider%20lane%20widths.-,Lane%20widths%20of%2010%20feet%20are%20appropriate%20in%20urban%20areas,be%20used%20in%20each%20direction.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 09:29:00 pm by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
Oil Capital
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« Reply #1856 on: April 14, 2021, 07:58:18 am »


Cool site, dbacks!  Thank you.

Here's a page showing it is indeed possible to squeeze all of this into the Peoria right-of-way.  But compromises are necessary -- bike lanes become sharrows at intersections... buses block traffic when stopped at their stops (requiring buses to pull out into a bus loading lane slows down the transit service and starts to defeat the purpose of investing in even modified "BRT").

https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/streets/downtown-2-way-street/
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patric
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« Reply #1857 on: April 14, 2021, 10:20:02 am »


Cool site, dbacks!  Thank you.


That was a good find.
Id much rather see Chicanes than speed humps for traffic calming.
Now if they could learn to not use high-glare "Acorn" lights as the default streetlight.  
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:23:57 am by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #1858 on: April 14, 2021, 11:28:36 am »

Id much rather see Chicanes than speed humps for traffic calming.
Now if they could learn to not use high-glare "Acorn" lights as the default streetlight.  

Turns in the lanes..... fun time.

Don't hold your breath on the streetlights.  Sad
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ComeOnBenjals
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« Reply #1859 on: April 14, 2021, 08:17:36 pm »

Sort of off topic, but as anyone been by Archer and I think Elwood (maybe Denver) recently? Drove by tonight, and there had to be 50-75 tents all lined up with people all over.  Has it been like this for a while? Didn't know if one of the shelters had temporarily shut down or something. Pretty drastic juxtaposition with Welltown 1 block over.
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