REI

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Dumb.  There is a Dicks and soon to be a Gander Mountain just across the river at Tulsa Hills and the Walk.

I'm not one that typically frowns on much of any new construction, but this is just stupid.  Not all three of those places will be able to stay in business for the next 10-15 years.

REI is a specialty store for biking, hiking, climbing, snow gear, and specialized camping. They don't sell guns, hunting equip, lake stuff, stick and ball sports, or fishing equipment.

I've only been to the one near Paradise Valley Mall, so that is the only location I can refer to.

http://www.rei.com/stores/paradise-valley.html

[BKDotCom]

Dumb.  There is a Dicks and soon to be a Gander Mountain just across the river at Tulsa Hills and the Walk.

I'm not one that typically frowns on much of any new construction, but this is just stupid.  Not all three of those places will be able to stay in business for the next 10-15 years.

REI is to Dick's as Fleet Feet, Runners World, and Lee's Bicycles, are to Dicks

[Conan71]

South of 71st is a city park, north of 71st is River Parks.

And that matters, why?  It’s still park land which has room for more amenities, should it be needed. 

[davideinstein]

Wait. someone wants to do commercial development on land that is ACTUALLY a park and we're all for it?

I'm not for the location, but I'm all for an REI.

[sgrizzle]

And that matters, why?  It’s still park land which has room for more amenities, should it be needed. 

The city can't just move their facilities to land they don't own.

[Conan71]

The city can't just move their facilities to land they don't own.

Are you aware that RPA actually leases some of it’s property from the COT?  There’s a very good working relationship between RPA and the city and has been for 40+ years.  If needed, I’m pretty confident there could be room for more equipment north of 71st.  Aside from the volleyball courts, I don’t see there being a huge loss south of the 71st St. Bridge.  That area is literally known as “The Desert” by trail users.  If that parcel fit the business model of outlet malls, which need a major interstate in close proximity, it would be ideal for the Simon outlet project.

This plot is far better than pushing over trees, mowing down a ridge, and artificially filling in a valley.  I really don’t get the rub on the REI location.  If anything, they have proven to be a good corporate citizen and they like to make use of the local resources to demo the equipment they sell.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Dumb.  There is a Dicks and soon to be a Gander Mountain just across the river at Tulsa Hills and the Walk.

I'm not one that typically frowns on much of any new construction, but this is just stupid.  Not all three of those places will be able to stay in business for the next 10-15 years.

Dick's won't be missed.  Sounds like a decent trade - REI for Dick's. 

Gander Mountain - meh...ok... who cares....

[Gaspar]

Dumb.  There is a Dicks and soon to be a Gander Mountain just across the river at Tulsa Hills and the Walk.

I'm not one that typically frowns on much of any new construction, but this is just stupid.  Not all three of those places will be able to stay in business for the next 10-15 years.

On the contrary.  This is exactly how retailers do it all over the country (for decades).  Dicks and Gander, as well as Macy's, Kohls. . .  all use the same demographic data to co-locate.  McDonalds, Burger King, Sonic, and Wendy's too. Here is why.

If the two compete from across town, they will segregate their customer base and have very little likelihood of drawing customers away from the competition.  They also diminish the total draw to the retail development as a whole.  Each specializes in a slightly different emphasis and while there is a good degree of cross-over, there is quite a difference in brand and price structure.  The cross-over is where each can compete for the loyalty of the other's customers, and expose them to the diversity of their offerings.

I promise you that Dick's couldn't be more thrilled by the Gander Mountain grand opening (and will surely have quite a few sales at the same time) and they both would be just giddy if an REI moved in across the street.  This is how large-scale retail development is done. 

Personally, I will be far more likely to visit both now that I can pop across the street if one does not have what I'm looking for or if I want to make comparisons.

[rebound]

REI is to Dick's as Fleet Feet, Runners World, and Lee's Bicycles, are to Dicks

Exactly.   But Sun and Ski Sports has to be antsy about REI coming in.  Much closer competition.

[swake]

Exactly.   But Sun and Ski Sports has to be antsy about REI coming in.  Much closer competition.

And Backwoods

[TheArtist]

On the contrary.  This is exactly how retailers do it all over the country (for decades).  Dicks and Gander, as well as Macy's, Kohls. . .  all use the same demographic data to co-locate.  McDonalds, Burger King, Sonic, and Wendy's too. Here is why.

If the two compete from across town, they will segregate their customer base and have very little likelihood of drawing customers away from the competition.  They also diminish the total draw to the retail development as a whole.  Each specializes in a slightly different emphasis and while there is a good degree of cross-over, there is quite a difference in brand and price structure.  The cross-over is where each can compete for the loyalty of the other's customers, and expose them to the diversity of their offerings.

I promise you that Dick's couldn't be more thrilled by the Gander Mountain grand opening (and will surely have quite a few sales at the same time) and they both would be just giddy if an REI moved in across the street.  This is how large-scale retail development is done.  

Personally, I will be far more likely to visit both now that I can pop across the street if one does not have what I'm looking for or if I want to make comparisons.

Kind of like my shop downtown.  If there were more shopping nearby, I would do better because people could then say "Hey let's go to the Deco District and do some shopping." They don't really do that now so it's tougher for me to compete with those areas that do have more shopping. The convenience and perception factors outweigh the competitive factor.

Or a better example might be "art galleries" or an "arts district".  If you have one or two art galleries in one area of town, then another couple in another area, etc. (kind of like Tulsa has) each would not do as well as they would if they were all clustered in one area.  It would then become a destination for those looking for art and to sell art.  It would create more traffic for all of those in that area versus a lone art gallery far away from the "cluster" or in that situation where there is no "cluster" and all the galleries are spread out.  

[sgrizzle]

There’s room to move in park equipment to the north of 71st St. as well and there is another existing park with playground equipment around 56th St. I think.  Other than the volleyball courts, the rest of that area is a wasteland.  This plot was the original proposed site for the aquarium which Jenks finally got. City leaders in the early 1990’s didn’t see the value in an aquarium. 

1. Riverparks isn't going to put stuff up and maintain it just because the city throws it out.
2. The Tulsa proposal for the aquarium required them to initially have "no indoor exhibits"
3. The "wasteland" you speak of is closer to the official definition of a park than the outlet mall location
4. This development will probably also include a bank, two cell phone stores and a great clips. Still all gung ho?

[Conan71]

1. Riverparks isn't going to put stuff up and maintain it just because the city throws it out.
2. The Tulsa proposal for the aquarium required them to initially have "no indoor exhibits”...and Jenks got it and indoor exhibits. Your point being?
3. The "wasteland" you speak of is closer to the official definition of a park than the outlet mall location
4. This development will probably also include a bank, two cell phone stores and a great clips. Still all gung ho?

I actually did have a conversation with someone at Riverparks about this and TMUA for a good while the other night.  It’s entirely possible for them to find another place for it.  There simply is no shortage of recreational opportunities near the vicinity of the current “park”.

Have you walked or ridden past this area on the trail?  Other than the apartments, it’s mostly over-grown vacant land which doesn’t seem to be serving any purpose other than the occasional hobo camp I come across. From Riverside it looks like over-grown vacant land, with the exception of the volleyball courts. I’m not sure how that squares with what a park is supposed to look like.  It reminds me nothing of Woodward or Zink parks.

I’m no fan of the additional development leeches, but an REI beats the smile out of a Super Target or Wal-Mart.  REI is more of a lifestyle store which would fit being near popular outdoor recreation areas, not a fashion mart.  My biggest concerns are the same as with the proposed Simon development: loose trash blowing from the parking lot and dumpster areas, storm water runoff, and additional traffic.  As there are three lanes SB on Riverside at 71st, it is one of the few intersections in Tulsa which would be ready to handle such a development prior to it being built.

You can bet with the city being dependent on sales tax for most of its operating revenue, the city is anxious to get sites like this generating revenue and it will get developed rather than staying in limbo.  If it has to happen there, this is preferable to other retailers for the area.

[swake]

There's been a survey crew at the REI site this week

[LandArchPoke]

While I can't say I'm surprised by what this will turn out to be I just expected more from such a prime piece of land. I can't believe we are trading park land and frontage to the river for MORE SURFACE PARKING LOTS!!    Over 50% of the river frontage is parking... just absolutely insane and unacceptable. Why again are we being asked to pay $300 million for dams that will spur this kind of development?




http://www.tulsafrontier.com/hyperlocal-blog-reis-really-ridiculous-rollout/